X DM Posted August 23, 2007 Share Posted August 23, 2007 (edited) Without narration would you have understood the visual staging of Blue Shades? That it would be about rehearsals, practice and hardwork? No way on the first viewing. Absolutely no way. Without narration would you have understood that the add ins (kneeling up) of different parts of the corps was about joining together part by part with the theme of community? Would you get it the first time you saw it? And much more examples are followed in there. So would it have been as effective if it was simply just there? You see there were many parts where you wouldn't get it as part of the show's theme without the aid of narration. A GE music and visual judge would be missing out a lot. And we... won GE the last two nights. So... So Corps who use narration are at an added advantage over Corps that do not use narration ? And that's because the use of narration opens up to the Corps more opprtunities for more effective clarity of themes WITH narraton that would be difficult if not impossible WITHOUT narration ? Also, can you explain what constitutes" bad narration" from" good narration " on the scoring sheets. Do Corps whose themes seemed missed or convoluted without the use of narration this year seem ill served because had they used narration, they might have scored higher because their theme would have been communicated with the spoken word with more clarity to the judges and to the audiences ? Edited August 23, 2007 by X DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted August 23, 2007 Share Posted August 23, 2007 One of the ironies of The Cadets heavy use of narraton in their show this year is that nobody knows whether or not it's use elevated or hurt their score this year. That's because, as near as I can tell, nobody knows how narration is judged. To my knowledge, it's never been properly and intellegently explained in depth to anyone. I started a thread on here this year, and nobody knew how narration is judged. Nobody knows what the criteria is for awarding points for " good narration ", or taking away points for " bad narration ". Thus, nobody knows if The Cadets could have won without the narration, or if the narration gave them a 2nd place and without it's useage, they might have placed lower. Nobody seems to know. Perhaps even the judges have not clearly defined in their own minds, nor on the scoring sheets, how to score a Corps whose theme has extensive use of narration to convey the theme to fans and to the judges. Which ,if you think about it, seems pretty strange not having clearly defined criteria for judging a major component in a show performance of one of the top Corps of all the Drum Corps this year. You say 'nobody'. Do you know for a fact that the judges and staffs do not know the impact and how it is judged? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X DM Posted August 23, 2007 Share Posted August 23, 2007 (edited) You say 'nobody'. Do you know for a fact that the judges and staffs do not know the impact and how it is judged? Yes, at present I 'd say that's seems true.. Nobody has effectively explained how narration is judged as near as I can tell. I've asked the question, and nobody seems to know so far. Do you know the criteria ? We know that brass caption looks at things like tone, intonation, attacks, releases, pitch, crescendo, diminuendo, blend, phrasing, uniformity, etc. Nobody seems to know what the criteria is for " good narration " vs. " mediocre narration ", vs. " bad narration ". For instance, nobody knows if more attention by judges is given to the sound of the spoken word, or to the words themselves. We have had anecdotal evidence that when the sound system was not functioning at 100% in a show that apparently no points were subtracted. That's because the following night when the sound system was clearly functioning better, there was no demonstrable difference in placement nor scores for that Corps. Thus, from outward appearances, it appears that Corps who use narration have more of a competitive advantage than those that do not. That's because apparently a poor quality of sound does not effect placement, nor a score. And the poster above has established that the use of narration was a distinct advantage in conveying a clarity of theme to judges and audiences than without it. Thus, it's quite possible that The Cadets use of narratuon gave them a competitive advantage this year. But again, nobody really knows for certain, because nobody seems to know what the criteria is for jdging a Corps that uses a heavy dose of narration in their show performance. Edited August 23, 2007 by X DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mouthpiece1234 Posted August 23, 2007 Share Posted August 23, 2007 So Corps who use narration are at an added advantage over Corps that do not use narration ? No where did you come up with this inference. I never said that. I was talking specifically for 2007 Cadets. The narration aided specifically to our program I didn't talk about a general corps' score with narration. Each program has their own mechanics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted August 23, 2007 Share Posted August 23, 2007 Yes, at present I 'd say that's seems true.. Nobody has effectively explained how narration is judged as near as I can tell. I've asked the question, and nobody seems to know so far. Do you know the criteria ? we know that brass caption looks at things like tone, intonation, attacks, releases, pitch, crescendo, diminuendo, blend, phrasing, uniformity, etc. Nobody seems to know what the criteria is for " good narration " vs. " mediocre narration ", vs. " bad narration ". It doesn't matter whether or not I know the criteria...as long as the judges and corps staffs understand what is being evaluated that's all that counts. I don't know if those folks do know, or if they don't, but it doesn't matter what I know or dont' know about this. Nor does it matter if anyone else here in DCP-land knows. What I take away from these sorts of comments is a feeling that because the poster doesn't know...it means nobody knows...and that DCI has some sort of obligation to fill us in. IMO they do not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted August 23, 2007 Share Posted August 23, 2007 And the poster above has established tgat the use of narration was a distinct advantage in conveying a clarity of theme to judges and audiences than without it. Thus, it's quite possible that The Cadets use of narratuon gave them a competitive advantage this year. The poster was talking about this year's Cadet show that was designed to use narration. So yes, for the Cadets 07 show narration was an advantage for them...they designed the show to be that way. Doesn't mean that Regiments show, for example, was at any disadvantage without narration. That's how they designed their show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawn craig Posted August 23, 2007 Share Posted August 23, 2007 Without narration would you have understood the visual staging of Blue Shades? That it would be about rehearsals, practice and hardwork? No way on the first viewing. Absolutely no way. Without narration would you have understood that the add ins (kneeling up) of different parts of the corps was about joining together part by part with the theme of community? Would you get it the first time you saw it? And much more examples are followed in there. So would it have been as effective if it was simply just there? You see there were many parts where you wouldn't get it as part of the show's theme without the aid of narration. A GE music and visual judge would be missing out a lot. And we... won GE the last two nights. So... To be honest some of those themes didn't come across well or the way intended WITH narration. Much of the narration made many of us (myself, those in my group and others I talked to) feel we were totally uneducated and being talked down to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mouthpiece1234 Posted August 23, 2007 Share Posted August 23, 2007 To be honest some of those themes didn't come across well or the way intended WITH narration. Much of the narration made many of us (myself, those in my group and others I talked to) feel we were totally uneducated and being talked down to. I can't really say much to that. The vocals are what they are, you really have to choose how to perceive it. I can assume that you knew the intention was not to make you feel belittled. Personally I would find it hard to feel belittled by something I knew the intention was not to make you feel dumb. But that's just me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X DM Posted August 23, 2007 Share Posted August 23, 2007 (edited) It doesn't matter whether or not I know the criteria...as long as the judges and corps staffs understand what is being evaluated that's all that counts.I don't know if those folks do know, or if they don't, but it doesn't matter what I know or dont' know about this. Nor does it matter if anyone else here in DCP-land knows. What I take away from these sorts of comments is a feeling that because the poster doesn't know...it means nobody knows...and that DCI has some sort of obligation to fill us in. IMO they do not. Well, it's nice to know that someone can admit they don't know much about this issue. You are not alone. I do not believe that DCI has an obligation to educate or inform audiences about how a Corps performance is judged. But they get no sympathy from me if frustration with placements and scores lead ineviteably and ultimately to some booing in some quarters as a result of that audience disconnect in being properly informed regarding judging a major component in a Corps show performance. I've always been of the opinion that education is the best buffer against ignorance and it's resultant frustrations, misunderstandings and miscommunications. Edited August 23, 2007 by X DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X DM Posted August 23, 2007 Share Posted August 23, 2007 (edited) To be honest some of those themes didn't come across well or the way intended WITH narration. Much of the narration made many of us (myself, those in my group and others I talked to) feel we were totally uneducated and being talked down to. I do understand your point about " being talked down too " in the Cadets use of narration in this years show theme. The point according to The Cadets supporters of narration is that it would be very difficult to convey THEIR show theme without the use of narration. I see their point and perhaps that does have validity. But that's beside the point. My main comment point is that nobody seems to know how narration is judged. Maybe there are folks out there that do understand the criteria. I've just never met them. And my quick read of the judging captions and some of the criteria doesn't shed any light on how narration is judged either. Edited August 23, 2007 by X DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.