audiodb Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 well that 7th place corps did get 2nd in percussion even tying BD for 1st in one of the sub captions.And on quarters night the bluecoats won brass even though the corps was in 5th. But quarterfinals isn't finals, and second place isn't first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Brace Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 OK...maybe this will settle it. I'll ask DCI to build a Jim Ott Jr. award. A plaque perhaps. Yes...a nice acrylic plaque with some doodads on it and it will say "Best Brass Almost." Would that make you all feel better? Because if you ask the members of the hornline. I will wager they already know how good they were this year and if they come into next year with a little chip on the shoulder, more power to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roosevelt Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 Did you read any of this thread before you posted this? Yes I read all of it There's many examples of corps not being in the top three and winning captions.How is there "no hope?" Because those examples do not happen very pften and most of them were a long time ago. The reason I know that I disagree with the statement saying that they did not march well. Did you see them live this season? Yes I did see them live this season....numerous times and from numerous angles. Their feet were dirty What are you basing that statement on? On the fact that I watched them live about as much as anyone all summer and they dont move that well for a group that is sompeting for a DCI title.... oh and on the fact that almost their entire visual staff is being let go...that does not happen if the corps is happy with the performance of that caption I've never been a big fan of theirs until this season's show, but that hornline marched their ##### off. I never thought I'd say that about the Bluecoats. Sure they moved alright. They just did not move (In my opinion) as well as: BD Cavies Cadets Crown SCV Phantom Blue Knights Boston They moved well enough to win the caption on QF's day. So one of the three brass judges made a call and actually put them where they probably deserved to be. That is what I am talking about. The judges are way too weak as a whole to throw a number down with multiple corps left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roosevelt Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 Im sorry but to say because a corps was ranked mid order as u will, and they can not win a caption is rubbish history as proven other wise. A few examples! DCI 1981 Bridgemen take high drums - overal finish 6th DCI 1991 Devils tie high brass have a 5th place postion.My take on the finals weeks seen to be on perfomance, Vanguard took cavaliers horns on finals night, the first time all season. Bluecoats were just a bit unlucky, everyone knows phantom can pull it out of the bag on finals night so............ So your examples come from 16 years ago and 26 years ago. So, in the past 26 years we can say that this has happened only a handful of times when we know for a fact that there have been numerous examples of groups that were outside the top three that should have won. This year is a perfect example. Crown and Bluecoats both should have beaten BD in Brass. Crown's brass line was unreal and they were no where close to even being in the hunt (same thing happened to them last year too). Phantom's drum line should have won this year too. So, there are four example example in the past 2 years of groups that should have been far higher in their caption placement than they were, but were brought down by the overall placement, I gave you 4 examples in the last 2 years.....you gave me 2 examples in the past 26 Does that show you that the judges just might be a little bit weak? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
octavia9299 Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 I'll agree that a 4th or 5th place corps could win a caption these days, but everyone has to agree that the days of the 14th place corps winning a caption (as someone cited) are long over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 The judges are way too weak as a whole to throw a number down with multiple corps left. What number did you want them to throw down? 19.8? What if every other corps after them performs better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roosevelt Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 You seem to have the process reversed. The judges have no idea where a corps is sitting overall when they write down their number. Each judge evaluates his/her own caption, and ranks accordingly. If Bluecoats' brass was better than BD that night, it would have been on the sheets. Yes they do. It is the performance order. Finals week is based of a seeding and the judges know just by that order who is scoring where and how much room to leave. If a corps goes on with 6 corps left and has a great show the judge knows that they shouldn't pop them a 19.8 because they know they are in danger of running out of room. If the next 6 corps that go on after them are better than the judge is screwed. So, they low ball the number to cover their rear end and then 15 minutes later they forget the whole thing and they are lucky if they can even spell Bluecoats. The farther down the corps is from the top people care less and less. The judges know that, so they spend most of their energy getting the top teir corps right and the rest of the time is a numbers management game to get there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roosevelt Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 What number did you want them to throw down? 19.8? What if every other corps after them performs better? Then the judges are screwed...I know that and so do the judges. That is why we have these kinds of situations. A judge is going to save those numbers for later in the night...especially when it is a show that is based off of a seeding like a regional or finals week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mouthpiece1234 Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 it was just an example of bad number management. He gave a caption winning score before he saw 4 or 5 more hornlines. He had no room to go but down for the others so to make sure he didn't fully box himself in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
octavia9299 Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 it was just an example of bad number management.He gave a caption winning score before he saw 4 or 5 more hornlines. He had no room to go but down for the others so to make sure he didn't fully box himself in. Would you be confident enough to walk up to Andy Poor and ask him, "Hey, Andy, did you $#@& up on quarters night?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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