Who is DC playing to?

[MikeD]

See red above.

What does this mean: "Put it back in the fan's hands"...whem was scoring ever IN their hands?

I'd hate to see something like that happen, even though Crown was my own favorite show this year.

[asifindnoarta]

So I keep reading how the "downfall of DC" is eminit due to judging out weighing fan appreciation and vice versa. And yes, there are people on both sides and I want to know what you think.

1 Where do you put DC on the continum of Judging vs. fan appretiation?

2 Who is its intended audiance, (judges or fans?)

3 Do you see anything wrong with this set up?

4 What would you do to fix it? (Can it be fixed? Does it need to be fixed?)

Just trying to get the pulse of those on DCP.

Good question!

1) Right now shows are designed and tweaked I'd say primarily for the judges.

2) The audience is the intended audience but I think what you mean is who is the show written for and I'd say right now shows are written for points rather than applause.

3) Yes. Judges shouldn't exist. You can't objectively evaluate drum corps. Drum corps isn't a spectator sport its an artform. Bach, Monet, and Joyce weren't making their stuff for judges. Judging defines the activity as competitive. The Competitivenes of the activity actually inhibits artistic expression.

4) It can be fixed. Get rid of judging. Get rid of rules. Let drum corps do whatever they see fit to do with their shows. No judges = no competition = no rules. No rules = whatever you want = better drum corps.

[MarimbasaurusRex]

Drum corps is a competition first. The "show" is a byproduct. Don't we all check scores every day during the season? A vast majority of the discussion is about who is in what place and why. If a corps scores lower than hoped or expected, it's the topic of conversation for days or weeks (see Madison 07). With few exceptions, drum corps by design are almost forced to play to the judges first.

[Blueemrld8]

Which DOES or which SHOULD??? I'm not trying to be snarky, but which way do you want this discussion to go, OP -- a theoretical discussion of who SHOULD have the most influence over the direction of DC and is that happening and/or how do we get there?? Or a reality-based discussion of who DOES have the most influence and what we can/should do about it if anything???

Both are valid discussions -- it's your topic -- which shall we discuss??? :)

(you can say "both", but I fear that then we will get nowhere fast !!!! ^0^ )

BOTH!!! LOL

These are open ended questions... there are many more in DCP that know a whole lot more then i do and i want thier honest opinions. I know there are a lot of differing oppinions out there and i would like to open a discussion on the matter. It will help me gain a little knowledge as well.

[Blueemrld8]

[dccorpsfan]

Can I have a hug, too?

[danielray]

Audience types can be categorized into the following groups:

Sympathetic/Similar

Sympathetic/Dissimilar

Unsympathetic/Similar

Unsympathetic/Dissimilar

Sympathetic/Dissimilar

Would be fans watching Michal Jordan play. Most like to play a little sports, and might be decent at it, but none will ever be similar to Michael Jordan. To have his experience or anything close is completely unattainable for them.

Unsympathetic/Similar

This is the critic.

Unsympathetic/Dissimilar

This is most of the audience at the ballet, opera or symphony. Most have not played any sort of instrument, danced or have performed in any way. They do not have any sort of sympathetic understanding of the process involved and will never attain the ability or opportunity to experience anything similar to these performers.

Sympathetic/Similar

This is the drum corps audience. Most everyone in the audience is familiar with the activity through their experience in other similar activities or have participated in the activity themselves. For the audience they understand what is involved in creating the production and many have participated in this themselves.

It is this distinction that most people do not pay attention to when comparing drum corps to other activities. It is also because of this distinction that the audience is not only considerably more demanding than most, but is, in general, becoming increasingly sophisticated and more knowledgeable with progressive generations.

This explains why there is a generation gap in the drum corps audience compared to many other activities out there, as it is accelerated by being a uniquely Sympathetic/Similar audience type.

[Longtime Fan]

I am in awe of the level of achievent of today's corps....but don't like much of what they do. A few shows inspire the crowd, but many times what the corps intends to be a big hit results in only tepid applause.

Corps want to win....and the judges decide who wins. So of course shows are designed for judges.

A useful example would be a Broadway show that gets awards for best director, best music, etc.....but closes because not enough people buy tickets to see it.

Last April, I sat in a New York City movie theater for the DCI countdown of the all time best shows. (There were about 20 other people in the theater--in a city of 8 million. Do we have a popular activity or what???) Of course, SCV's "Phantom of the Opera" placed first. A couple of blocks away, Phantom still was playing on Broadway to to full or almost full houses, as it had every night since 1988. Ditto (with a couple years' hiatus each) "A Chorus Line" and "Les Miserables". Great music.....still popular....so why hasn't a DCI corps seen fit to revisit it in almost 20 years?

[X DM]

So I keep reading how the "downfall of DC" is eminit due to judging out weighing fan appreciation and vice versa. And yes, there are people on both sides and I want to know what you think.

Where do you put DC on the continum of Judging vs. fan appretiation?

Who is its intended audiance, (judges or fans?)

Do you see anything wrong with this set up?

What would you do to fix it? (Can it be fixed? Does it need to be fixed?)

Just trying to get the pulse of those on DCP.

Well, it seems clear to me that Corps show designers place a heavy emphasis on designing shows to win. We as fans can count on one hand the number of Championship award winning shows that likewise were " the people's favorites " that year. There is no question that the very definition of " General Effect " in the " General Effect Captions " has changed over the years. Today, " General Effect " places more award points for show design and integration for instance than audience appeal. This was not always the case in earlier Drum Corps eras. Corps get more credit in scoring for things like complexity and demand than ever before and that reflects the general higher talent level of it's members than in previous eras. If DCI was interested in more crowd appeal of it's product,, then the judging captions would reward audience response and audience appeal more. Umtil the judging captions are altered we can look for shows to have demand, complexity and be built around those reward points rather than audience appeal. And we can expect show designers to react to those judging sheets and design shows accordingly. And for fans to have their annual " Champion " most likely be the " winner " with the judges, but not with the vast majority of audiences across the country.

Edited August 23, 2007 by X DM

[silvertrombone]

You know, I like X DM's comments. Actually, what I'd like to see is this. Swap the intent of the GE caption without telling any of the corps what it is for next year. Let them think it still means "design to the judges" but then actually judge it as "perform to the audience!"

Wouldn't that shake things up a little!

Sorry about the goof on words, Mike. Semantics. Do you get my point at all? I'm guessing you did. You answered it.