Madison Scouts name program coordinator

[roosevelt]

This is not about Scouts Zack, even though this is a thread talking about Scouts new acquisition. Its about the state of the activity in general, and probably why ESPN2 at some point will lose interest in DCI. There is no competition, no drama. We know who's going to win on June 15th.

For the record, I saw Scouts this year 4 times, they were not top 12 material.

Totally agree.

I have never thought about the ESPN2 angle. Interesting point...

Edited September 19, 2007 by roosevelt

[Officer_Jenny]

What else was holding them back? Visual perhaps?

and music

[Roark1]

No offense, but I think the conspiracy theory that so many Scouts alumni have against DCI is keeping the Scouts back. Instead of admitting fault and trying to improve, so many in the Madison organization say it was the fault of DCI that the Scouts didn't place well. I think as a whole, we supporters of the Scouts have to stop creating false phantoms where they don't exist and look at why the organization may not have achieved what it wanted to acheive.

I’ve never seen anything remotely like this. Whom are you counting as the “so many”? People that post here? Why there must be 10 or 20 of them at least. There’s a broad base to support your theory.

Sorry, since there are thousands of fans/alumni out there, more concrete backup is needed for this point, otherwise it’s just an opinion, to be given all the due consideration of all the other opinions here.

Edited September 19, 2007 by Roark1

[JayM]

This is not about Scouts Zack, even though this is a thread talking about Scouts new acquisition. Its about the state of the activity in general, and probably why ESPN2 at some point will lose interest in DCI. There is no competition, no drama. We know who's going to win on June 15th.

What, in your opinion, would be the impetus for DCI to make sure the same three corps win year after year? What do they stand to gain?

The thing is, even when a top corps has an off year, they still do certain things inherently very well due to the consistency in the educational programs that are able to thrive under the umbrella of a very stable organization. To use my own corps as an example, even with the biggest "new guy" class since probably 2001, they were able to win the Visual Performance caption on Quarters and Finals night. Why? Because the guys leading the visual caption marched the Cavalier style in the 90's, taught it in the 90's and 00's, and have brought in alumni from every age-out class they have taught over the last decade to help teach the corps. There are very few organizations that have that sort of consistency in the staff ranks and it's such a huge advantage.

The new brass team was brought in before the 2001 season. The philosophy was new to the corps then, but over the years, age-outs have been brought on the staff at a rate of one or two each year. So again, we have guys who were taught under the system teaching the system to the next generation of Cavaliers.

So, with a brass staff going on its 8th year, a visual staff with members as far back as 1995, a design team going on its 11th year (with the exception of Casella), a guard staff with tons of 90s guard guys, and heck, a corps director who is a former drum major and visual caption head, it's going to be very difficult for the corps to drop too far in the ranks.

Lately, Crown and Bluecoats have started to get the consistency thing down, with Crown having a brass staff going on its 6th year and Bloo (with Team Canada) on at least its 8th season.

Blue Devils have a record of consistency that doesn't even need to be mentioned, it is that well known.

Cadets as well.

Until other corps find staff members with a philosophy that works well and that they can stick with long-term, you're going to see the sort of disparity we seen in DCI from year to year. All of these board member changes and caption head resignations or transfers we see from year to year are certainly not helping.

[Scerpella]

What, in your opinion, would be the impetus for DCI to make sure the same three corps win year after year? What do they stand to gain?

This is perhaps better dealt with in a different thread. But the short story is that he who has the gold makes the rules. Achesons job depends on the good graces of Fiedler, Downey, and Hopkins. They control the philosophy and direction of DCI, they are the leaders of the activity and other corps directors fall into line behind them. Woe unto him who has a different vision (Scott Stewart anyone?)

Messrs Fiedler, Downey, and Hopkins are ultimately driven by self interest and self preservation of their own careers. It is human nature for those who have the power to hold onto their jobs to do whatever it takes to accomplish that. If you want to win or even sniff at winning you must follow the course laid out for you by those who have the power. If you want to judge in DCI and receive all the attendant benefits in the "legitimate" music world one gets for their names being linked to DCI's finest, you see things their way, or youre gone. There is no room or tolerance for Mavericks.

BTW I am not suggesting for a second that there is an explicitly organized conspiracy to keep the top three the top three. I am suggesting that everyone knows how to get ahead and stay ahead in DCI and people acting out of natural self interest will end up doing what those who hold the ultimate power want them to do. And its also not to say that the top three have ever been not excellent, although there have been a few times they probably finished better than they should have. Its just so ridiculous to consider that after years of innovative and excellence coming from many of the top 6-8 corps, somehow the same three end up winning the thing year after year. Phantom never winning the title by themselves? Cmon! Bluecoats this year not as good as Devils? Yeah right!

Well I guess so much for the short version!

[madalumni]

Thanks Jayzer - great post. This is exactly what a freind and fellow alum and I have been talking about.

The Scouts not only need consistancy on staff, they need a SYSTEM that can be duplicated over and over

again. In the business world, it's called franchising. You take a system and make it learnable and repeatable.

McDonald's knows this concept better than almost any corporation and that's why they are almost always at

the top of their industry. The nice thing is, the Scouts currently are hard at work (and have been) developing

that consistncy and those necessary systems to move the Corps forward to long term success. The hiring of

Ramiro Barrera is one big piece of that puzzle. His resume screams of consistancy! :D

What, in your opinion, would be the impetus for DCI to make sure the same three corps win year after year? What do they stand to gain?

The thing is, even when a top corps has an off year, they still do certain things inherently very well due to the consistency in the educational programs that are able to thrive under the umbrella of a very stable organization. To use my own corps as an example, even with the biggest "new guy" class since probably 2001, they were able to win the Visual Performance caption on Quarters and Finals night. Why? Because the guys leading the visual caption marched the Cavalier style in the 90's, taught it in the 90's and 00's, and have brought in alumni from every age-out class they have taught over the last decade to help teach the corps. There are very few organizations that have that sort of consistency in the staff ranks and it's such a huge advantage.

The new brass team was brought in before the 2001 season. The philosophy was new to the corps then, but over the years, age-outs have been brought on the staff at a rate of one or two each year. So again, we have guys who were taught under the system teaching the system to the next generation of Cavaliers.

So, with a brass staff going on its 8th year, a visual staff with members as far back as 1995, a design team going on its 11th year (with the exception of Casella), a guard staff with tons of 90s guard guys, and heck, a corps director who is a former drum major and visual caption head, it's going to be very difficult for the corps to drop too far in the ranks.

Lately, Crown and Bluecoats have started to get the consistency thing down, with Crown having a brass staff going on its 6th year and Bloo (with Team Canada) on at least its 8th season.

Blue Devils have a record of consistency that doesn't even need to be mentioned, it is that well known.

Cadets as well.

Until other corps find staff members with a philosophy that works well and that they can stick with long-term, you're going to see the sort of disparity we seen in DCI from year to year. All of these board member changes and caption head resignations or transfers we see from year to year are certainly not helping.

Edited September 19, 2007 by madalumni

[patblamo]

Thanks Jayzer - great post...The Scouts not only need consistancy on staff, they need a SYSTEM that can be duplicated over and over again...The nice thing is, the Scouts currently are hard at work (and have been) developing that consistncy...The hiring of Ramiro Barrera is one big piece of that puzzle...

Wow, Jeff took a thread that was TOTALLY off-topic, addressed the "off-topic" topic and brought it back to the original (uhh) topic.

[randomnoise]

When Dan Acheson, Jeff Fiedler, Wayne Downey, and George Hopkins decide it you nean.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Dude, that's funny.

Edited September 19, 2007 by randomnoise

[MelloPrano]

So.... Returning to the topic of the post.

Does this acquisition mean a Jazz show for the Men of Madison, or are we expecting a master of cool to step from his boundaries to experiment with a corps of returning members who are no stranger of being asked trying new things? (The original show this year tried a lot of new things, they just didn't pan out as expected, the mid-season switcheroo we trying to recover with something manageable and time-tested)

[JF_the_Elder]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Dude, that's funny.

Particularly when you consider where Dan Acheson marched