A Challenge to 2/3 Fans

[drumcat]

OK, here's a thought experiment. No one seems to terribly happy with attendance for 2/3, and there seems to be general discontent about the way 2/3 works. Let's think about how to change for the better. Here's your challenge:

Name one to three things you would change about Division 2/3 if:

* You had free reign to make a change; no politics. You're king of DCI.

* You have a budget of $0.00. You cannot spend on marketing, advertising, etc.

* You cannot modify Divisions or the division a corps competes in.

Tell us why your idea is a good one, and what it would accomplish. Good luck, and I look forward to seeing what comes up!

[Slow Adam]

Reschedule so that II/III competitions are over and done with before Division I quarterfinals, and drop a round so that it is prelims ans finals like the old days. I think alot of fans (myself included) see it somewhat unnecessary to have so many rounds of competition. The current schedule (and different stadiums) makes fans chose between events, with II/III coming out on the short end of the stick more times than not.

Monday - II/III prelims

Tuesday (NIGHT!) - II/III finals

Wednesday - I & E

Getting into the big stadium would help, if nothing more than for finals...but that would cost more - I'm not sure how much could be offset by dropping semi finals. And, finals HAS TO be at night, there is no excitement in crowning champions at 2pm, for the fans or the corps members.

[corpsvalues]

As only the second poster on this thread and my 3rd post on this board ever, I don't want to get this thread OT, but I think I have something topical. I apologize to, if there is already a thread on this.

I've been confused about all of this talk of "125 miles between stadiums" for II/III corps, so I called DCI today for some clarification.

They told me that the prelims are being held on Tuesday in Michigan City, IN. The top number of corps will then advance to Lucas Oil Stadium for their Friday and Saturday events. Therefore, there will no longer be an overlap of shows! Fans can come to Lucas Oil to see the Div 1 prelims on Thur, the Div II/III Semis on Fri, followed by the DIv 1 Semis, and then the Div 2/3 Finals on Saturday leading in to the Div 1 finals. That's excellent news, imvho.

Back on topic,

I've talked to a few Div 3 directors at DCI nats about this a few years ago, and they told me that it's really hard to keep the kids focused once they finish competition. They like the finals being toward/at the end of the week, so that they can spend their days rehearsing (with maybe a day or two for fun stuff if they don't advance) rather than being done before Div 1 Prelims even start. Think about it - if they are done on Tuesday, there's still a lot of days to fill before Saturday night!

My butt is already starting to hurt, just thinking about how many hours I'm going to be able to sit in one place over several days, seeing all these great shows. I couldn't be happier about it, tho.

Reschedule so that II/III competitions are over and done with before Division I quarterfinals, and drop a round so that it is prelims ans finals like the old days. I think alot of fans (myself included) see it somewhat unnecessary to have so many rounds of competition. The current schedule (and different stadiums) makes fans chose between events, with II/III coming out on the short end of the stick more times than not.

Monday - II/III prelims

Tuesday (NIGHT!) - II/III finals

Wednesday - I & E

Getting into the big stadium would help, if nothing more than for finals...but that would cost more - I'm not sure how much could be offset by dropping semi finals. And, finals HAS TO be at night, there is no excitement in crowning champions at 2pm, for the fans or the corps members.

[Tom Brace]

Reschedule so that II/III competitions are over and done with before Division I quarterfinals, and drop a round so that it is prelims ans finals like the old days. I think alot of fans (myself included) see it somewhat unnecessary to have so many rounds of competition. The current schedule (and different stadiums) makes fans chose between events, with II/III coming out on the short end of the stick more times than not.

Monday - II/III prelims

Tuesday (NIGHT!) - II/III finals

Wednesday - I & E

Getting into the big stadium would help, if nothing more than for finals...but that would cost more - I'm not sure how much could be offset by dropping semi finals. And, finals HAS TO be at night, there is no excitement in crowning champions at 2pm, for the fans or the corps members.

so renting the big stadium for two extra days (Monday and Tuesday) is not a $0 budget idea. It's a HUGE COST for DCI to absorb given that there will only be 2000 or fewer fans in the stands.

[Tom Brace]

As only the second poster on this thread and my 3rd post on this board ever, I don't want to get this thread OT, but I think I have something topical. I apologize to, if there is already a thread on this.

I've been confused about all of this talk of "125 miles between stadiums" for II/III corps, so I called DCI today for some clarification.

They told me that the prelims are being held on Tuesday in Michigan City, IN. The top number of corps will then advance to Lucas Oil Stadium for their Friday and Saturday events. Therefore, there will no longer be an overlap of shows! Fans can come to Lucas Oil to see the Div 1 prelims on Thur, the Div II/III Semis on Fri, followed by the DIv 1 Semis, and then the Div 2/3 Finals on Saturday leading in to the Div 1 finals. That's excellent news, imvho.

Back on topic,

I've talked to a few Div 3 directors at DCI nats about this a few years ago, and they told me that it's really hard to keep the kids focused once they finish competition. They like the finals being toward/at the end of the week, so that they can spend their days rehearsing (with maybe a day or two for fun stuff if they don't advance) rather than being done before Div 1 Prelims even start. Think about it - if they are done on Tuesday, there's still a lot of days to fill before Saturday night!

My butt is already starting to hurt, just thinking about how many hours I'm going to be able to sit in one place over several days, seeing all these great shows. I couldn't be happier about it, tho.

good post. welcome aboard. Yes, it's a long day...but I went to II/III finals last year in Madison and then went a grabbed a burger and came back for Div. I finals. It was a great day and bith my son and I enjoyed both shows.

Of course, I remember going to quarterfinals when it was 26 corps. Almost back to that many now!

The biggest issue with the morning shows is so many of the current fans are solely focused on Div. I and to get up at 9a to see II/III is not worth their effort. Also, they may have a less than positive image of II/III because of some of the regional performances by some corps who are really at the beginning stages of drum corps. It's like judging minor league baseball by going to watch a t-ball game.

Perhaps this is the ideal time to reintroduce my Div. 4 idea. The Developmental division. Corps who do not score at least a certain number in II/III competition or are in their first year of existence or in their first year back after at least a two year layoff would go into the Develpmental division. Regionally only and would be announced in Div. 4 but scored on Div. II/III sheets. If they maintain a scoring average above a certain threshold for a year, they can then petition to go up to Div. II/III. If they are accepted...then they can go to both regional competions and finals in Michigan City.

Most people thought my idea was too harsh when I first introduced it. But...if you've ever sat in the stands through a struggling "developmental" corps. It's hard not to understand why some fans get a negative impression of II/III.

Just so people know....II/III finals is way different than that. The 12th corps up is solid and then it gets better with each corps. At least that was 2006.

[marimbaman89]

Reschedule so that II/III competitions are over and done with before Division I quarterfinals, and drop a round so that it is prelims ans finals like the old days. I think alot of fans (myself included) see it somewhat unnecessary to have so many rounds of competition. The current schedule (and different stadiums) makes fans chose between events, with II/III coming out on the short end of the stick more times than not.

Monday - II/III prelims

Tuesday (NIGHT!) - II/III finals

Wednesday - I & E

Getting into the big stadium would help, if nothing more than for finals...but that would cost more - I'm not sure how much could be offset by dropping semi finals. And, finals HAS TO be at night, there is no excitement in crowning champions at 2pm, for the fans or the corps members.

How about dropping semifinals but keeping prelims and finals later in the week? If II/III ended before Div I even started than attendance would suffer because some people wouldn't want to drive out to indiana on Monday to watch all of II/III when they could just come out on Thursday for quarterfinals. If II/III ended after Div I began then this wouldn't be an issue.

[erictuba16]

how bout chaning the limits and max of the divisions. 30 is too high, and 150 is umm dumb! if you want to see my thoughts further in depth go to the ecj page.

and yes reinstate the division 4 for the smaller guys, and reinstate the dca,dcm,dcp circuts...not all corps can tour on a national level.. and the amount of touring in order to get to finals i find a bit much especialy for those who cant afford it.

eventualy i think youd find that the more corps with fewer restrictions on tour schedules and size are going to be better off and perhaps survive.

and the more corps that survive.. the more local shows and less spending money on traveling stupid distances.

Edited September 20, 2007 by erictuba16

[SF2K4]

Just a thought... and I've always wondered this... shouldn't the total member limit be different for Div I and II? I mean... doesn't that just make sense?

Say... whatever the minimum is up to 70 or so is Div III... then from THAT number up to say 120 or so is Div II... and then up to the 150 is Div I? And I don't mean waiting until the season starts to see how many members you HAVE, I mean PLANNING on that many members.

Just a thought...

[drumcat]

Good points, all of you. Let me just throw some quick points out...

D2 is supposed to match the full complement of D1 because it's not defined by size, but by organizational goals. D3 is for size.

That said, since Division 2/3 are separate, I'd like to see one of several things... if it's all about org strength, let's consider consolidating to a Division 3 limit of between one to two busses. Min 50, Max 100. Simple Enough.

Another thought is to eliminate Division 2's size limit. Imagine BDB = 265... just an out there thought I don't endorse, but it would make the division interesting, would it not?

As for schedule, I'd really like to see some of what you guys are talking about. But to stay fair, and within the rules, let's see how we could do this...

Prelims can be handled in a day now, right? How's this... currently, you have a Tuesday, Friday, and Saturday day shows. If you're willing, you could continue to have Prelims Tuesday, and Finals Wednesday night. Or, you could do Division 2 and 3 separately as well -- Division 3 could be held on Wednesday night, and Division 2 could be held after Semis...

You could get more radical... you could change semis to have 6-8 "bye" slots so that you could have D2/3 on Friday night. Fat chance, though.

What I'm settling on is this:

D2/3 Prelims - all day Tuesday, but ending much later than this year. Let's go 'till 11pm.

D2/3 Finals - Skip semis, and have it all out, at night Wednesday after I&E -- with an I&E showcase between shows maybe.

Friday, conduct a 3 hour mass-corps rehearsal, prepping a 3 minute show of brass, an all-star drumline, whatever, for the purpose of...

Saturday, where D2/3 combined plays the anthem and an opening mass number after (or with) the Marines.

Why this schedule? Keeps 'em busy, and puts them in uniform in the stands. I'd like to see D2/3 sitting as groups for Finals, showing visually all the corps not in D1. It's awareness, it's organized, and it's a showcase of their talent. For retreat, it would be really cool if all the corps were allowed to fill the back stands in uniform.

And my other thought I've tossed around -- I would add 8 more championships. For each Division 2 and 3, add an official Western, Eastern, Southern, and Canadian championship. The Canadian would be reserved for the best placing Canadian corps overall, or if that's not practical, it's time to put Canada into the International division -- the top International corps should be winning, not just the top non-Norteamericano...