A Stupid Question About Kanstul Baritones

[skluyuk]

Ask and ye shall receive. Thanks James, now I have to see if there is a scheduled event for me up north that weekend. :P

I thought you might be busy with something Dave. Too bad, we had a good time playing and got together for some chow, beer and lots of legacy collection viewing on the big screen with surround sound. All the dogs in the hood were howling!

We're all going to Glendale this Sunday and then possibly Riverside and finally Anaheim for the world record! C'mon out for one of 'em!

[rayfallon]

[quote name='HornsUp' @ Nov 14 2007, 02:52 AM) *

Intonation is always relative, never absolute.

So a good player in a good ensemble is constantly adjusting, usually subconsciously.

I prefer to play models of G baritones that don't need a slide mechanism to acheive harmonically pure tuning

So you don't think that Zig Kanstul has made any improvements to his designs in 30 or 40 years? Kanstul says that the tune-any-note feature was built into their horns at the request of Wayne Downey when the Blue Devils played Kanstul.

Play the (treble clef - 1st leger line) A without the "tune any note" feature and you'll get it. (It's so sharp you could cut yourself on it).

I liked the post about good players always tuning, but then the same poster went on to say they prefered a superior bari bugle... is that like a liberal Republican? (that may get me flamed, I guess). We've been dealing with such a mess of intonation forever (some as a result of bad instruments - and what should we expect for what we can afford to pay? - and some (at least back in the day) was the result of being trained by folks who had learned to play in drum corps. The best players though, even back on the old G - D horns (where you really had to!!!) used those slides to tune just like trombonists.

Getting back to the question at hand - you don't want or need a spring - there's no correct place to set the slide, just leave yourself some room to pull some notes up and some notes down... pay no attention to all the falderall about sharping major thirds (in what partial? in what degree of what scale or mode?) or flatting minor thirds (see aforementioned questions). Use your ear, use a tuner, make some notes as to where you're in tune with the rest of the world, and then make sure that the rest of your section is in the same part of the world as you. Anyway, the regal baritone is the king (if not the Emporer) of the drum corps brass world, so play with pride and gusto and verve and musicianship, and a finely tuned ear.

Edited December 9, 2007 by rayfallon

[ravedodger]

LOL. I hadn't thought to actually play the horn. I kid. So the A is pretty out of whack. I guess I need to dig out the tuner. I'm an old sop player but have been playing one of my King baris lately. For some reason, I'm enjoying the older K-70 serial number 1405 more than a newer one serial number 113025.

[Leland]

I wish it were as easy to tune a valved instrument on every note as it is to tune a trombone on every note...

If I ever hear of an instrument that plays everything in tune, I'll quit, because why should I profess to have a skill that is suddenly unnecessary?

[Shadow_7]

I wish it were as easy to tune a valved instrument on every note as it is to tune a trombone on every note...

The TAN on the Kanstul makes some of that possible. Although there are a few whack partials that just don't have enough slide to make the appropriate adjustment. Not that making the adjustment is preferred if you're in a line of players that otherwise don't adjust(or can't because they don't have a TAN). But in smaller groups with one on a part, you get spoiled using the TAN.

[Scerpella]

For my money, an Olds Ultratone comes close...

Kanstul is the descendant of the Ultratone

[rayfallon]

LOL. I hadn't thought to actually play the horn. I kid. So the A is pretty out of whack. I guess I need to dig out the tuner. I'm an old sop player but have been playing one of my King baris lately. For some reason, I'm enjoying the older K-70 serial number 1405 more than a newer one serial number 113025.

For my tastes, the brief time on earth of the American Heritage (2 valve) bari, followed by a nearly identical King (both made by Ziggy before he went on to his own shop) were the two nicest baris we've had. I also felt the Olds, while superior to everything that went before, was stuffy compared to the later Benge (AH) and King baris. My favorite sounding horns were the set of Olds we bought for the '78 Bridgemen, with the brass lacquer finish. In my opinion those lines sounded distinct and unique. But for playing, I still like the King horns. Contras too.

[HornsUp]

For my tastes, the brief time on earth of the American Heritage (2 valve) bari, followed by a nearly identical King (both made by Ziggy before he went on to his own shop) were the two nicest baris we've had. I also felt the Olds, while superior to everything that went before, was stuffy compared to the later Benge (AH) and King baris. My favorite sounding horns were the set of Olds we bought for the '78 Bridgemen, with the brass lacquer finish. In my opinion those lines sounded distinct and unique. But for playing, I still like the King horns. Contras too.

Amen, Ray. Which is why I prefer my Heritage horn, one of my Kings, or even my Duratone. None of these need a gizmo in order to temper their pitches to a good ensemble.

The 2-piston Olds was built with the same major components as the P-R model. But both the 1st and 2nd valveslides were too long.

[Leland]

None of these need a gizmo in order to temper their pitches to a good ensemble.

I have never, ever, ever played a horn that didn't need adjustments of some kind.

Ask a trombone player how many versions of 4th position they use, and if they're any good, they'll say, "Oh, probably five or so.."

If I could have tune-any-note slides on all of my instruments, I would. It gets annoying sometimes to have to lip pitches around depending on chords, voicing, and whatever else. Playing down the center of the horn is just more accurate -- that is, less likely to frack -- and if the horn's pitch center can be adjusted to where it naturally plays in tune in whatever situation, then playing clearly & cleanly becomes easier.