Who decided?

[Will]

So, I'm sure we all know that flag sizes (poles AND silks) have all gone up and down the ladder. At one time we spun 7' poles with itty bitty flags, some groups have ALWAYS used 6 foot poles, some groups still spin 5 foot poles... which leads me to my question(s):

1. Who decided how big the silk and pole should be to begin with?

2. Who was the first guard to make the big change over to a slightly smaller pole to spin easier???

3. Why on earth did anyone ever spin something smaller than a 5 1/2' pole??

I think you get where I'm going with this.....

OH one more question: Are there still high school guards that use 6 1/2 or 7 poles as their standard??

DISCUSS!!

[MHSmirage]

Well this year the standard at one of my programs was a 6 1/2' Pole....except the opener, it was a 6'. The thought was "Tall kids, small number of guard, more color on the field"

I remember in high school 14 years ago we spun 5 1/2' poles (eek). I visited the program last year and found them STILL spining the same size. Whatever works, right?!

[kentofhardrck]

well, the pole size is really up to the instructor. i spun 6 foot poles in high school, but im sure its a matter of preference, skill level, and height of the guard.

i noticed that younger, shorter, and less experienced guards tended to use shorter poles, and therefore should have smaller silks.

i also noticed pacificaires (IA) uses short poles. theyre from canada, so maybe pole length is a regional thing.

the longer the pole, the taller the person has to be in order to spin it without hitting the ground, and the more money it costs to buy a set for your whole guard. money could also be an issue here.

the first guard, i dont know about, since im relatively young in comparison to the history of this program.

[quegrawks]

well, the pole size is really up to the instructor. i spun 6 foot poles in high school, but im sure its a matter of preference, skill level, and height of the guard.

i noticed that younger, shorter, and less experienced guards tended to use shorter poles, and therefore should have smaller silks.

i also noticed pacificaires (IA) uses short poles. theyre from canada, so maybe pole length is a regional thing.

the longer the pole, the taller the person has to be in order to spin it without hitting the ground, and the more money it costs to buy a set for your whole guard. money could also be an issue here.

the first guard, i dont know about, since im relatively young in comparison to the history of this program.

None of what you've said is correct (except maybe the pacificaires and your own personal experiences).

A smaller pole is not necessarily easier to control than a longer pole. I've seen World guards use 5' poles in their shows for effect. I've seen novice guards us 7' poles and handle them with no problem.

A person does not need to be tall to handle a longer pole without hitting the ground. Hitting the ground deals with hand and arm placement in relationship to the body and the spin space you wish to occupy. Longer poles are also not necessarily more expensive or cost prohibitive, depending on where you purchase them. I've seen guards spin 6' poles that cost more than $20 each (i.e cadets this past year, Blackwatch), and I've seen guards spin 8' poles that cost them about $5 each. What affects the cost is the material the pole is made from and what company sells them. Not the size of the pole in and of itself.

As for who decides-- the person writing the work decides.

[kentofhardrck]

None of what you've said is correct (except maybe the pacificaires and your own personal experiences).

A smaller pole is not necessarily easier to control than a longer pole. I've seen World guards use 5' poles in their shows for effect. I've seen novice guards us 7' poles and handle them with no problem.

A person does not need to be tall to handle a longer pole without hitting the ground. Hitting the ground deals with hand and arm placement in relationship to the body and the spin space you wish to occupy. Longer poles are also not necessarily more expensive or cost prohibitive, depending on where you purchase them. I've seen guards spin 6' poles that cost more than $20 each (i.e cadets this past year, Blackwatch), and I've seen guards spin 8' poles that cost them about $5 each. What affects the cost is the material the pole is made from and what company sells them. Not the size of the pole in and of itself.

As for who decides-- the person writing the work decides.

Okay, I understand where youre coming from, and youre right on those..

but if an extremely short person spun the same size as an average person, he/she may have to alter their hand placement on the flag pole, which would affect the cleanliness of the work. My instructor talked all about hand placement on the pole, and i did notice that depending on where you placed your hand, it sometimes alters the flag angles and the relationship of the flag to the body compared to the others spinning around you.

for the whole difference in price, i do know that different poles range in cost depending on the material and the company. However, i was pointing out that if you were to buy a 5' aluminum pole, it would be cheaper than buying a 6' aluminum pole from the same company. More material, more expensive.

in my experience, the person who wrote the work was my instructor, so i grouped that category together.

one question though. If an instructor doesn't teach work, than what would they do for that guard?

Edited November 3, 2007 by kentofhardrck

[quegrawks]

Lots of instructors walk around and yell at the guard members without a clue as to how to teach work or clean it. You're lucky. You should see some of these guards in TX.

[deftguy]

So, I'm sure we all know that flag sizes (poles AND silks) have all gone up and down the ladder. At one time we spun 7' poles with itty bitty flags, some groups have ALWAYS used 6 foot poles, some groups still spin 5 foot poles... which leads me to my question(s):

1. Who decided how big the silk and pole should be to begin with?

In my experience, it has always been the guard instructor, and sometimes with the advice of the book designer.

2. Who was the first guard to make the big change over to a slightly smaller pole to spin easier???

First guard I ever saw with a 5' pole on the field was Phantom back in 1983. First guard I saw on the floor with a 5' pole was west coast express in 1979. I do not know if it was because it was easier to spin, but they both did some really cool under the leg catches with those size poles.

3. Why on earth did anyone ever spin something smaller than a 5 1/2' pole??

I used a 5' for a guard that really liked learning tricks and exchanges. They were a little easier to pull off with a shorter pole.

I think you get where I'm going with this.....

OH one more question: Are there still high school guards that use 6 1/2 or 7 poles as their standard??

DISCUSS!!

There may be some out there, but I have not seen any in northern california.

[Jim Nevermann]

When I went to my first Nationals in 1966 --yeah, 1966 in Washington DC [Cavies won it]-- most if not all poles were one piece aluminum... which worked then because drum corps flag sections, in general, did very, very little work. Choreography & dance, unlike today, didn't exist.

However, when I was hired-on as Phantom Regiment's drum instructor for the 1972-75 seasons, one of our two guard captains came up with the novel [and very effective] idea in 1974 of each person unscrewing their two piece aluminum pole during a quiet part in our 'concert number' [the standstill part of your field show: all corps did one] and then swinging the pole part with the flag in great, large figure-8's and loops during the grandiose waltz part that followed. It certainly added to the show because we got into DCI Finals that year for the first time ever.

One of the PR parents owned a silkscreen printing business, so starting in '73 we designed and printed our own flags.

Edited December 30, 2007 by Jim Nevermann

[charmedfreek]

My guard is a good guard and we got first at BOA. And we've used all kinds of flag poles.

Last year during marching we used 7ft poles for a section of our show. And last Winter Guard season we used 5 1/2 poles to open our show. But we also use 6ft poles. Our instructor always has good reasons for it I guess.

[byline]

I don't know exactly who did what when, except for what my own guard did when I marched Oakland. I do know that for first tour in 1978, we were using 6-foot poles with the full-sized cross flags. At some point -- and I don't know if this was a suggestion made in critique, or what -- our flag instructor, Cheryl Miller, decided to cut the poles down to 5 1/2 feet, and also cut down the flag size, ostensibly to improve timing. So by second tour in '78, we had the smaller-sized poles and flags. (I can remember gals in the flag line complaining that the flags just kept being cut down, to the point where there wouldn't be any flag left to spin. So I'm guessing that wasn't the first time that flag got downsized.)

That seemed to be the general trend in the late '70s on through the '80s; flags and poles kept getting smaller and smaller . . . and then they started getting bigger again. One high school guard I worked with went down to 5-foot poles (that was the decision of another instructor, not me). I never really liked the small poles and stayed with 5 1/2 feet the entire time I taught. For those particular guards, that seemed to be the happy medium between the best timing and the greatest visual impact.