cellopitmello Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 HI all,I have not posted much in a while due to work and my overall schedule. I have tried my best to catch up with the latest rules proposals and decisions--some of which I new were being introduced, some not. Here are some brief comments that many may not like, but they are just meant to stir some conversation and some thinking, and they are certainly not meant to be mean to anyone or to the activity. 1. Although a number of rules have passed that have certainly riled up the masses here on DCP, please remember that the unknown factor here (which corps will use electronics, etc., and how will they be used?) has not yet been answered. 2. None of us has experienced a drum corps show with electronics being used along with amplification. We can guess what the outcome will be, but we truly don't know until the corps themselves put it on the field. 3. Even the oldest and proudest of drum corps fans know that evolution takes shape in many forms, and in all phases of life. That includes drum and bugle corps. The activity has been changing since day one. There once was a time when many of the oldest corps used Fifes--a woodwind instrument by any definition. Change has indeed taken place, some of it good, some bad, but you can't have the one without the other. How can any rationale person not think that the day was coming when drum corps would migrate to amps, synths, keyboards, etc.? This has nothing to do with whether you like it, it has EVERYTHING to do with will it happen. 4. Why did it happen? Well, there are lots of reasons. Instructors are better educated, generally come from music school backgrounds, and DO like to play with timbre, effect, and they like to experiment with what could be vs. what is. They are not as concerned about DCI's past or its' traditions, they are more concerned with where it goes and what helps them compete, recruit, create, challenge, and perform. This is not to say that everyone agrees with such reasons, but until the product suffers enough or until people stop showing up for camps, it is unlikely that drum corps will take a step back to the past. None of us really know the answer to this. You can say attendance is down, fewer corps exist, and fewer kids are auditioning, but there can be all kinds of reasons for that. Cost could be at the top of the list, and frankly it would be hard to bring that down given the current times. The top corps seem to draw plenty of people to their camps, and typically they are the most progressive in terms of music, show design, amps, voice, electronics, you name it. They also happen to be the best run and most advertised. 5. Does anyone here really think that corps will continue to use voice, amps, and electronics in certain ways that tend to upset the audience and drive customers away? I am just asking this to hear what some have to say. I don't know that I can answer this myself, but it seems to me that the customer still has a say, and if tickets come crashing to a halt, and web sales fall considerably, and demand for the activity hits an all-time low, I do believe changes will be made. Also, when answering this, please don't just use the Cadets as your only model. They have proven to be one of the few corps that will push at will, regardless of what others think, and they have largely been successful doing so depending on what side you take. But come up with more than one example and don't just turn this into a Hopkins slam-fest. A lot of corps directors seem to be jumping on his band wagon. What must they be thinking? 6. Finally, how can anyone in their right mind really believe that from 1960 to now, or 1970 to now, that drum corps would NOT change, evolve, perhaps even morph into something totally different and new? How can one believe this when everything else in society has done just that? I realize that change is only good when it happens to be change YOU agree with, but to assume that change you dislike will never take place is unrealistic, and if you can admit that then you know exactly why things happen that you don't like. The old arguments do have some validity: - we haven't played real bugles for decades - it's no longer just a drum section, it is a percussion section that uses mallet instruments and more to emphasize color and theme - the Bb/F horns of today are BAND instrument for better or worse - the color guard bares little- to no resemblance of those used in the 70s, let along the 60s and earlier. - the overall military style and structure once so prominent up to the 70s is no longer seen, and hardly a debate arises because of its absence. - the visual program is perhaps the most striking change from earlier decades, yet we have taken all that with stride. - and vocalizations were allowed back in 1984, yet no debate occurred until amplification became legal. - amps were added a few years back, and while some did not like this it seems the corps have done well and people continue to audition. - so now we have added electronics and the world of drum corps has died. Yet it seems to me DCI and drum corps has died a thousand deaths according to many. So which is it? At first it seems the argument was drums and bugles, now it's keeping things acoustic. Well, which is it? Maybe you wish to have both, kind of like the kid who wants everything he asks Santa to bring him for Christmas. It is a new day for "drum and bugle corps." Indeed it is very new, very different, and with that may come a different fan base. I don't know. None of us really do. You may be planning on leaving the activity and not supporting it anymore, but you have no way of telling who will join with the new ranks and what their support may mean? Just some thoughts. JW well said :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumcat Posted January 28, 2008 Author Share Posted January 28, 2008 How convenient it will be for those corps to blame their lower scoring on not conforming. Sort of like when Pioneer got bagged for playing G? Ya, convenient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAMystreaux Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Sort of like when Pioneer got bagged for playing G? Ya, convenient. That is a matter of opinion, not fact. Point being, regardless of what is actually going on, it will be convenient for some of you here to blame the low scores of your favorite performing corps on not conforming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryTrooper Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 (edited) QUOTE (rosski47 @ Jan 27 2008, 04:19 PM) Actually no. Only soloists and small ensembles up to 12 people can be amplified. You can't amplify the entire corps and mix from there. He said second sopranos. You can amplify 12 horn players. That should be enough to cover the second sopranos.... So lets see.. You can have one 2nd and one 3rd sop amplified and then a whole ####-load leads players? Just think of what the lead line in Tiger of Sanpadro would sound like with 20 lead horns? Wow!!!... Edited January 28, 2008 by GaryTrooper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 That is a matter of opinion, not fact. It's a fact, TX. Multiple judge comments in critiques. Their brass instructor tells us so. But if it goes against what YOU believe, then you call it "opinion" every time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyRyder_FMM Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Tim, do you know which directors voted for and against each proposal? Yes, I do. However, I will not be posting it. That will be up to DCI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueemrld8 Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Yes, I do. However, I will not be posting it. That will be up to DCI. Wise man... that would open a HUGE can of worms Edited: for content Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 3. Even the oldest and proudest of drum corps fans know that evolution takes shape in many forms, and in all phases of life. That includes drum and bugle corps. The activity has been changing since day one. There once was a time when many of the oldest corps used Fifes--a woodwind instrument by any definition. Change has indeed taken place, some of it good, some bad, but you can't have the one without the other. How can any rationale person not think that the day was coming when drum corps would migrate to amps, synths, keyboards, etc.? This has nothing to do with whether you like it, it has EVERYTHING to do with will it happen. That depends entirely on when you asked that question. 4. Why did it happen? Well, there are lots of reasons. Instructors are better educated, generally come from music school backgrounds, and DO like to play with timbre, effect, and they like to experiment with what could be vs. what is. They are not as concerned about DCI's past or its' traditions, they are more concerned with where it goes and what helps them compete, recruit, create, challenge, and perform. This is not to say that everyone agrees with such reasons, ....good, because we don't all agree.... Cost could be at the top of the list, and frankly it would be hard to bring that down given the current times. Well, DCI did cancel the telecast due to "rising operating costs of the corps". No one postponed any rule change proposals, though - not even the ones that add to those costs. 5. Does anyone here really think that corps will continue to use voice, amps, and electronics in certain ways that tend to upset the audience and drive customers away? Well, yes, it is entirely possible. One look at the design decisions made by the Cadets in the face of audience criticism demonstrates the potential. Also, when answering this, please don't just use the Cadets as your only model. Why not? They are the only corps making these rule change proposals (at least, the ones that get through the caucuses). But come up with more than one example Alright. How about 21 examples? Amps are still quite unpopular with audiences, driving some customers away, yet all 21 current world-class corps use them. and don't just turn this into a Hopkins slam-fest. A lot of corps directors seem to be jumping on his band wagon. What must they be thinking? We have no evidence that they're thinking anything. Again, Hopkins is the only one making these proposals. No other options have been raised in the boardroom. 6. Finally, how can anyone in their right mind really believe that from 1960 to now, or 1970 to now, that drum corps would NOT change, evolve, perhaps even morph into something totally different and new? ....or unoriginal and old? How can one believe this when everything else in society has done just that? Because not everything in society does that. Soccer has remained the world's most popular sport by staying the same, not morphing into something else. It is a new day for "drum and bugle corps." Indeed it is very new, very different, and with that may come a different fan base. Better hope so - because if the current fan base proves nece$$ary, it's not going to be pretty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrillmanSop06 Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 I understand disagreeing with the changes... But what makes any one of you that marched before these changes better than the kids that will march after them?!?! How DARE YOU?! When did YOUR drum corps experience become more valuable than anyone else's?! Wow. Talk about a bunch of cry babies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmathis Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 (edited) I don't believe that this marks the end of DCI... it only marks the end of DCI as we know it. The generation that grew up with the original drum and bugle corps didn't really like the way it was before these silly rules were passed. We loved it...well, most of us did. Well, the activity is changing again. The newer generation that is coming along will probably enjoy the activity with these new rules like we have enjoyed it without them. Edited January 28, 2008 by cmathis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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