jblamb1401 Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 (edited) I have a soprano bugle that looks like this: There is also a slide on the opposite side of the valve. The slide has a ring for your finger to operate it and has an adjustable spring stop. The horn appears to be nickle plated. The best I can remember, it is a Kanstul. *(I'll check tonight to verify that) The case (which is old but I'm not sure original or not) has stenciled Connecticut Vagabonds Drum and Bugle Corps. I am looking for a fingering chart for this horn. Any other information you have would be appreciated as well. Edited March 18, 2008 by jblamb1401 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBbabe Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 56'] I have a soprano bugle that looks like this: There is also a slide on the opposite side of the valve. The slide has a ring for your finger to operate it and has an adjustable spring stop. The horn appears to be nickle plated. The best I can remember, it is a Kanstul. *(I'll check tonight to verify that) The case (which is old but I'm not sure original or not) has stenciled Connecticut Vagabonds Drum and Bugle Corps. I am looking for a fingering chart for this horn. Any other information you have would be appreciated as well. The fingering starts on “C”. It’s open©, valve(D), open(E), closed(F), open (G), closed(A), closed (B), and open for “C” again. The flat(sharp) notes are produced when you pull out the slide while playing the note. For example, an “e flat” is an open note with the slide out and a “b flat can be played with the valve in and the slide out, although on that horn it’s better to play it as an open note. This just one of many alternate fingerings. When going down from the “C”, you can play , “B, B flat and a G and a pedal C. If you get beyond the high “C” notes can be played opened or closed depending on whether you lip them up or need the valve to play them. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornsUp Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 Zig Kanstul was just starting as an apprentice at Olds when the horn in the picture was built. It was made by Conn in the early 50s. The giveaway is the distinctive die-cast fingerhook. If it is not stencilled CONN, it may be branded Ludwig & Leedy. If your soprano is not the one pictured, the description sounds like a Getzen-built model. Although it might have another name on the bell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-horns Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 I have a soprano bugle that looks like this:There is also a slide on the opposite side of the valve. The slide has a ring for your finger to operate it and has an adjustable spring stop. The horn appears to be nickle plated. The best I can remember, it is a Kanstul. *(I'll check tonight to verify that) The case (which is old but I'm not sure original or not) has stenciled Connecticut Vagabonds Drum and Bugle Corps. I am looking for a fingering chart for this horn. Any other information you have would be appreciated as well. Okay, here's another check to see if it is a Getzen. Look on the valve casing for the serial number. Getzen bugle numbers begin with B or F. It was definitely not made by Kanstul, since they never made single-valve horns. It is possible that the stencil on the bell is "Knoble". Regardless of the make, the bugle is pitched in G (concert) and when the valve is pressed the horn is in D. So, going up the scale, starting with bugle C (which is treble clef G, second line - on the piano).... C = open C# = valve and pull slide D = valve Eb = pull slide E = open F = valve F# = pull slide G = open Ab = valve and pull slide (this combo can be better "in tune" than some 3 valvers!) A = valve Bb = U-Pick open or valve and pull slide (options, options, options!) B = valve C = open Going down from bugle C... B = valve Bb = valve & pull slide A = valve & pull the slide as far as it will go, drop your jaw and pray alot Ab = don't even try G = open F# = pull slide F = not worth the effort E = No way Eb = get the bari's or frenchies to cover it D = valve and a bit of slide C# = nope again C = open Note that for most of the "pull slide" notes you only pull out about half-way (1-1/2 to 2 inches) on a soprano. Bari's you need to pull the slide all the way out and hope it is close. The nice part about these soprano slip-slide horns is that you can play in Eb without intonation problems by pulling the slide a little more on the Eb to compensate for the lousy Ab and Bb intonation. BTW, that could be the original case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jblamb1401 Posted March 20, 2008 Author Share Posted March 20, 2008 The horn is a Getzen! Sorry it took so long to reply. I'm at work, internet is not set up yet at home, and I was working from bad memory. The slide on the horn pulls out a good 4-5 inches before it hits the stop. Has anyone ever heard of the Connecticut Vagabonds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 The horn is a Getzen!Sorry it took so long to reply. I'm at work, internet is not set up yet at home, and I was working from bad memory. The slide on the horn pulls out a good 4-5 inches before it hits the stop. Has anyone ever heard of the Connecticut Vagabonds? Checked www.dbcna.com and see two CT entries for Vagabonds Vagabonds - Milford (Unknown if Jr/Sr) Vagabonds - Torrington (Sr) existed 59-73 I'm wondering how long they used that piston/slide horn you have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jblamb1401 Posted March 20, 2008 Author Share Posted March 20, 2008 (edited) I'm trying to remember who I acquired the horn from. It was an E-bay auction 3-6 years ago. It was from a corps. I BELIEVE that it was an auction to benefit the Skyliners. Edited March 20, 2008 by jblamb1401 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Oz Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 <snip for brevity>Regardless of the make, the bugle is pitched in G (concert) and when the valve is pressed the horn is in D. So, going up the scale, starting with bugle C (which is treble clef G, second line - on the piano).... <more snippage> Note that for most of the "pull slide" notes you only pull out about half-way (1-1/2 to 2 inches) on a soprano. Bari's you need to pull the slide all the way out and hope it is close. The nice part about these soprano slip-slide horns is that you can play in Eb without intonation problems by pulling the slide a little more on the Eb to compensate for the lousy Ab and Bb intonation. <still more snippage> Thanks for the information. I’ve always been interested in the difficulties of playing the old style horns. This also explains (what I think of as) the “drum corps sound”. The sopranos had to play in the upper register to find more pitches. One question though: If I read the fingering correctly, the slide could be used in at least two positions – half and full extension. If that’s correct, then piston/rotor horns would have difficulty playing as many notes, as the rotor would not have had the “half/full” positions. Is my thinking correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shenandoah Vibrato Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Okay, here's another check to see if it is a Getzen. Look on the valve casing for the serial number. Getzen bugle numbers begin with B or F. It was definitely not made by Kanstul, since they never made single-valve horns. It is possible that the stencil on the bell is "Knoble".Regardless of the make, the bugle is pitched in G (concert) and when the valve is pressed the horn is in D. So, going up the scale, starting with bugle C (which is treble clef G, second line - on the piano).... C = open C# = valve and pull slide D = valve Eb = pull slide E = open F = valve F# = pull slide G = open Ab = valve and pull slide (this combo can be better "in tune" than some 3 valvers!) A = valve Bb = U-Pick open or valve and pull slide (options, options, options!) B = valve C = open Going down from bugle C... B = valve Bb = valve & pull slide A = valve & pull the slide as far as it will go, drop your jaw and pray alot Ab = don't even try G = open F# = pull slide F = not worth the effort E = No way Eb = get the bari's or frenchies to cover it D = valve and a bit of slide C# = nope again C = open Note that for most of the "pull slide" notes you only pull out about half-way (1-1/2 to 2 inches) on a soprano. Bari's you need to pull the slide all the way out and hope it is close. The nice part about these soprano slip-slide horns is that you can play in Eb without intonation problems by pulling the slide a little more on the Eb to compensate for the lousy Ab and Bb intonation. BTW, that could be the original case. Fantastic Post and an excellent choice of words (ie open vs. valve, pull slide). Its ironic that you should call this a "Fingering" chart since the thumb, either left or right, is used on the valve. When pulling the slide you must of course switch to the left thumb. Personally, I never switch thumbs, when I play. I use my left thumb on the valve and have my right hand either resting in the top ring, but more often holding/pulling the slide. The slide pull distance I vary depending on the note. For example the on the C# I pull the slide about 3 to 3-1/2 inches, Eb gets 2 to 2-1/2 inches (my index finger, when extended inward beyond the slide, hits the inside of the main tube). An F# gets a healthy 3-1/2 inches or the note will be very raspy. Yes the Ab (below middle C) is a no go but you can play it by slurring down an A and pulling the slide out so far (about 4-1/2 inches) that it almost literally comes off the horn. You can play this low Ab with a little practice but you are living on the edge of disaster. You would also have to remove the stop from your slide so that it can be pulled out far enough. Oz, sorry I have never used a piston/rotor so I do not know if this causes problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shenandoah Vibrato Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 I need to make a correction on the A and Ab below the middle C. I played my Ludwig slip/slide last night and discovered that G-horn is absolutely correct. The A is the one that you have to dig deep for by slurring down and removing the stop on the slide. The Ab below the middle C is just not possible regardless of how long you stand on your head. Sorry folks, I'm just an amature horn player with no musical background. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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