The Beating in Whitewater

[DRB]

At least that's what it was in my mind.

I think it was 1982. The corps from Geneseo IL had a chance to be a DCI finalist. Really had a strong corps there for a few short years.

It's been a long time, so my facts may not be totally accurate. As I recall, it was DCI Midwest prelims and something happened which has not been, or at least not known by me, to be adequately explained what happened that day. Here was a corps who dropped something like 15 to 20 points from Friday night to Saturday prelims.

As told to me by a very good friend and reliable source who was marching with The Knights, there was no explanation, justification, or concern expressed by DCI. I'm not sure there has been a discussion about this to this day.

A case could be made that this beating by the judges initiated the downfall of Geneseo. It seems to my old memory, that the corps really declined over the next 2-3 years. This single, solitary event damaged the corps so significantly that I'm unsure if they ever made another appearance in Whitewater.

There was an unsigned editorial of sorts in Drum Corps World that covered this day's events in detail but I to this day, do not know if DCI ever made any efforts to help Geneseo with the emotional and psychological trauma inflicted on the corps that day. In my years in the activity, this was without a doubt, the most heinous act by a judging crew every witnessed. I was told, by a member of the corps, there were some significantly upset people.

Well, I hope that someone out there can enlighten and refresh my memory about this event.

[CrunchyTenor]

Well, I hope that someone out there can enlighten and refresh my memory about this event.

This topic has been discussed a couple of times in the past. My wife was in the Knights color guard that year. I'll have to let her know about this thread, and perhaps she could shed some light on the situation.

You may have to wait until she gets back from Taiwan, though. Or perhaps she'll fire up her new laptop and respond sooner.

Garry in Vegas

Ps IIRC from previous discussions about this, my bride said the first thing she thought was, "What caption did they forget to add in?"

Edited May 9, 2008 by CrunchyTenor

[Northern Thunder]

The Knights peaked at the 1983 DCI Midwest in Whitewater. All of the top contenders were there, and they took 9th place, beating Freelancers, Cavaliers, Sky Ryders, Bridgemen, Crossmen and Troopers. Three weeks later at DCI in Miami the Knights were beaten by all of those corps and slid to 16th place.

You can look at recaps for the season at: fromthepressbox.com

Edited May 9, 2008 by Northern Thunder

[DRB]

Maybe that happened in 1983. It's been a long time to remember the exact details. I was not a member - just infuriated with what happened that day. It was an adjudication massacre to say the least. Always felt DCI "owed" the Knights for this screw-up.

[IllianaLancerContra]

The Knights peaked at the 1983 DCI Midwest in Whitewater. All of the top contenders were there, and they took 9th place, beating Freelancers, Cavaliers, Sky Ryders, Bridgemen, Crossmen and Troopers. Three weeks later at DCI in Miami the Knights were beaten by all of those corps and slid to 16th place.

You can look at recaps for the season at from the pressbox.com

Pretty sure you are correct - it was 83. They peaked early. Maybe not 15-20 points early, but early.

[stoods59]

I remember this show, it was 1983. There were a few disgruntled fans in the crowd, but there was precedent. In prelims Geneseo scored a 68.85, then dropped to 61.90 in finals. I marched with the Guardsmen in 1980 and this type of thing happened to us on more than one occasion. At Whitewater Midwest prelims we scored a 70.2, then dropped to 63.8 in Finals. At Birmingham prelims we scored a 79.55, then dropped to 72.90 in finals, coming in 12th and getting passed up by Northstar. So, it had happened before and the point drop wasn't nearly as big as you thought.

Did it seem fair to us? No, not at the time. But once we saw tapes of our marching performance differences between our prelims and finals show, well, it wasn't really a comparison - we probably deserved it, as much as that hurt.

[nineiron]

The mosquitos in Whitewater gave everyone a beating.

[Northern Thunder]

I covered that 1983 Whitewater contest for Drum Corps News, and the Knights were a legitimate top 10 (not even top 12, but top 10) corps that last week in July. Their execution was ahead of those other corps at that point. Their show apparently didn't have the "meat" that the other established corps had, and the were passed up those final weeks of the season.

Prior to Whitewater that year it's interesting to note the Knights had an 11 wins to 4 advantage against the Cavaliers in head-to-head meetings, but after Whitewater it was Cavaliers 3 wins to zero for Knights.

[donnebrook]

I covered that 1983 Whitewater contest for Drum Corps News, and the Knights were a legitimate top 10 (not even top 12, but top 10) corps that last week in July. Their execution was ahead of those other corps at that point. Their show apparently didn't have the "meat" that the other established corps had, and the were passed up those final weeks of the season.

Prior to Whitewater that year it's interesting to note the Knights had an 11 wins to 4 advantage against the Cavaliers in head-to-head meetings, but after Whitewater it was Cavaliers 3 wins to zero for Knights.

I marched that year with the Cavaliers. The Knights came out of the block very clean and polished. We were a mess until the final third of the season. It was a classic case of peaking too early and not making the changes needed to their show to keep their score growing. They were kind of cocky all year towards us as well. They would often taunt us with "What time is it? It's Knight time in Miami!" as we were passing. We felt relief when we passed them in scoring and left them behind for good.

[BamRam]

Way to break open old wounds

Folks are confusing 82 and 83.

The 15+ point drop at Whitewater occured in 82. Geneseo was a legitimate 11-15 place corps that year (eventually finishing in 15th at Montreal). At DCM Championships in DeKalb scoring a 72, beating Colts by nearly 13 points and trailing Cavies by 6.5. Two weeks later at DCI-Whitewater scoring a 61 (23rd place) losing to Colts by 1 and trailing Cavies by 17+. Two nights later at another DCI sanctioned show, scoring a 71 and trailing Cavies by 9. None of the marching members were ever told why. And to my knowledge no comments from DCI were provided.

The situation at Whitewater in 83 was similar, but far more destructive to the corps. As a previous poster said, Geneseo was a legitimate top 10 corps that year (eventually finishing in 16th at Miami). At DCM Championships in DeKalb scoring a 71 at finals, beating Cavies by 0.05 and trailing Madison by 6.5 (Madison finished 5th that season). One week later at DCI-Whitewater scoring a 68 at prelims (9th place) droping to a 61.9 at finals (11th place). While the drop was large, the finals performance was flat, so the drop was not all that unexpected given that it was a DCI regional championship. The next night in Rockford the score was 59.9. The following week the score jumped back up to a 70. From July 23rd until Aug 15th the scores stayed at about 70. Occassionally popping up to 73 or 74. The same time all other corps scores were continuing to move up so that by finals week, essentially all but a handful of corps passed Geneseo. There are a lot of theories and speculation, I truly don't know why. I can tell you this. After the Whitewater and Rockford shows, Geneseo worked their tails off the last 3 weeks. Including certain sections refusing to take a "free day" so they could practice. There is zero chance that the corps didn't improve during those three weeks. So I'll leave it to those who saw the corps to decide for themselves if the fix was in. Regardless of how/why it happened. The 83 season was the beginning of the end of a terrific drum corps. Due to what transpired they lost a tremendous number of members after that season.

Also, please note that I'm not trying to disparage any of the other corps' from 82 & 83. There were some terrific corps' with great programs each of those seasons. Any residual anger from former members and staff are toward DCI and the judging community not the other corps' or their membership.