Blue Knights design and approach

[Keith Laubhan]

Sure, but so were so many other corps that are no longer with us....

How many of those cases were due to lack of popularity or accessibility? Bridgemen? The original Velvet Knights? Kingsmen? 2-7?

The majority of corps that are no longer with us are a result of organizational instability or unfortunate econmic situations- not falling out of favor with the fans.

Edited June 24, 2008 by Keith Laubhan

[Design Hound]

How many of those cases were due to lack of popularity or accessibility? Bridgemen? The original Velvet Knights? Kingsmen? 2-7?

The majority of corps that are no longer with us are a result of organizational instability or unfortunate econmic situations- not falling out of favor with the fans.

Sure, but like you said, the financial problems can stem from lack of support, which can in turn stem from a less than adequate fan base. Not saying that is necessarily true at the moment, but just saying it's possible.

[wesleyrp]

What a great thing that the beloved Bknights are getting some airtime on this board! There are really are some interesting takes on BK. My concern as stated by Keith is what happens to BK if they do conform and changes their style/technique? I have to be careful at my next statement as I mean no harm, but look what happened with Madison. I know I wanted to march corps because of Madison and their influence on drum corps. Madison has had the most impact of maybe any corps ever. But, the 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th placings for the usually top 6 fan favorite was not enough for the corps or the average fan, they changed. Now some might read into my thoughts and take it that I am saying entertaining the crowd is not important and that's the complete opposite of what I want to relay. Madison found out that it can be a dangerous game to try and please the crowd especially as corps such as BK, Glassmen and Boston rose into that same tier in the late 90's. They adjusted and got away from their identity. Imagine if BK did a normal marching technique with no body movement/dancing and decided to play music/design a basic crowd pleasing drum corps show. Would it really be well received? No, and the reason why is that the audience and judging community would say that they got away from what made them successful. BK is unique and a joy to watch. I hope they never change their style and continue to push the creative envelope.

Wes Perkins

BK '97 '98

[MikeD]

BK is unique and a joy to watch. I hope they never change their style and continue to push the creative envelope.

Wes,

That perfectly sums up MHO on BK...they are one of my favorites over the past few years.

[kndl2vb]

NOT MEANT TO BLW UP OVER THIS.....

BUT OVER A LOT OF OTHER STUFF

~K~

[TexasPRfan]

What a great thing that the beloved Bknights are getting some airtime on this board! <edit> BK is unique and a joy to watch. I hope they never change their style and continue to push the creative envelope.

Wes Perkins

BK '97 '98

I couldn't agree more!

Harvey

[traveller30]

What a great thing that the beloved Bknights are getting some airtime on this board! There are really are some interesting takes on BK. My concern as stated by Keith is what happens to BK if they do conform and changes their style/technique? I have to be careful at my next statement as I mean no harm, but look what happened with Madison. I know I wanted to march corps because of Madison and their influence on drum corps. Madison has had the most impact of maybe any corps ever. But, the 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th placings for the usually top 6 fan favorite was not enough for the corps or the average fan, they changed. Now some might read into my thoughts and take it that I am saying entertaining the crowd is not important and that's the complete opposite of what I want to relay. Madison found out that it can be a dangerous game to try and please the crowd especially as corps such as BK, Glassmen and Boston rose into that same tier in the late 90's. They adjusted and got away from their identity. Imagine if BK did a normal marching technique with no body movement/dancing and decided to play music/design a basic crowd pleasing drum corps show. Would it really be well received? No, and the reason why is that the audience and judging community would say that they got away from what made them successful. BK is unique and a joy to watch. I hope they never change their style and continue to push the creative envelope.

Wes Perkins

BK '97 '98

First off, I find it troubling that the identity is completely relegated to solely how the feet and bodies look or how "dark" the music is. I do not feel that Madison has lost any of their identity at all. Faltered in recruiting or executing on the field? Absolutely. No matter who was in front of the guys teaching, what the show was, or what their competitive status was, I still felt that they were Madison though. When Bluecoats walk in a stadium I still feel it is the Bluecoats even though they aren't playing My Funny Valentine or Johnny One Note.

Now for the white elephant in the room (just white elephants, no pink ones). I think that the approach to visual can be successful at a much higher competitive bracket (not asking them to change that), but not at the level of execution they can currently generate.

They focus significantly more on the individual performer rather than the big picture and have been doing this more and more since Robbie got there in 96 (it was 96, right?).

{snip}

That's how BK approaches everything. They treat everything as an exercise in expressing and developing emotion rather than a literal uniformity. So when a passive drum corps fan watches a BK show, they generally just hear music they don't really connect with and see visuals that just aren't the same as that other corps. But when you break down a BK show and pay more attention on the individual level, so much of the emotion that comes with 3 months of being a Blue Knight is apparent in their performance.

So I guess the bottom line is that BK strives to achieve is an emotional connection to present their visual and musical package, where as other corps (generally speaking) strive to achieve excellence in their visual and musical package to express emotion.

I don't disagree with you at all about the approach to body and movement. There is the whole thing about derived acheivement after all. I do have to dissent about how the corps pulls off what it is they do, the "how". Between the shows and watching warmups, I DO see differing degrees of effort at the individual level, all the way up to finals. I find it completely easy to spot the supervets and members more comfortable with the technique; they scream at me from the stands with their effort level. I also see a few more strata of achievement at a high or better than competent level. However, I can usually still see the individuals with whom the technique is not being executed or achieved. Feel free to correct me or point me to something else I should be looking for.

With the sheets the way they are, if that is to be the approach, then looking too much farther for any higher placements will probably be frustrating. Also, the corps does at times just plain move in formations, and if you want to live out on the edge with such a highly stylized technique and doing things others aren't doing, you need to execute on at least the same level on the things everyone else does. Those are my 2 cents, whatever that's worth in the economy nowadays .

[NV82]

I for one am glad that BK is committed to maintaining its identity and uniqueness. First let me say that before I was a BK mom I was a drum corps fan. In 2003 I took my son to his first dci show. He was 13 and became an instant Phantom Regiment fan. In 2004 we traveled to Denver for finals and there was no turning back, he was going to audition for Blue Knights that fall. Phantom Regiment was a long way away and he knew he wasn’t ready. That November I sent my very nervous 15 year old to Denver with no idea what to expect. It was an amazing year and he was extremely proud of their 10th place finish. He came home talking about the rush of walking onto the field and with the crowd cheering and standing applause. But, Phantom Regiment remained a dream…. In the fall of 2005 he auditioned in Rockford but didn’t get called back. He was disappointed, but excited by the positive feed back and looking forward to his 2nd year with BK. We all know the emotions and excitement 2006 brought for the corps. I traveled with them for a couple of weeks and was amazed at the excitement and pride the kids had. They believed in their show and were extremely proud of it!

Booing has no place in Drum Corps and is unacceptable under any circumstance. I’m sure each of the kids handled the excitement of placing 7th and the heartbreak of being booed in very different ways. If one of them posted somewhere that they didn’t care what the crowd thought, it was purely a defense reaction. Of course they care how the crowd reacts and yes, they want the fans support and cheers! It was a great show and very well executed. They work hard and deserved everything they achieved! My son came home with a new found sense of self confidence. He still had dreams of Phantom and started talking about the Cavaliers, but decided he had 3 years left in dci and he wanted to march another year with BK. We talked a lot about dreams, commitment, talent, friends and how hard many decisions are to make. 2007 was another very exciting year. No dramatic ending, but the crowds did cheer and the kids were very proud of their show and scores.

I love that different corps have different unique styles. As fans, we may like the style or show designed of one corps more than another but I believe it’s vital we embrace the diversity! I’m glad that corps like the Cadets and Blue Knights are willing to take chances and be true to their identity. Not every fan is going to like every corps. But if they are true fans, they are going to appreciate and cheer for the dedication, talent, and hard work of the corps members and staff.

Is it wrong that corps like the Blue Knights give the younger kids a place to start? If you think about it, isn’t it amazing that BK is able to achieve such a high level with such a young corps! My son left the Blue Knights this year. In no way do we feel like he moved “up”, he left to test his talent. The Blue Knights gave him self confidence and a family he knew would support him if needed. Most important he knew that after marching 3 years with BK they had given him the foundation and guidance he needed to march in any DCI corps he sought. They gave him his dreams....

[Keith Laubhan]

I don't disagree with you at all about the approach to body and movement. There is the whole thing about derived acheivement after all. I do have to dissent about how the corps pulls off what it is they do, the "how". Between the shows and watching warmups, I DO see differing degrees of effort at the individual level, all the way up to finals. I find it completely easy to spot the supervets and members more comfortable with the technique; they scream at me from the stands with their effort level. I also see a few more strata of achievement at a high or better than competent level. However, I can usually still see the individuals with whom the technique is not being executed or achieved. Feel free to correct me or point me to something else I should be looking for.

With the sheets the way they are, if that is to be the approach, then looking too much farther for any higher placements will probably be frustrating. Also, the corps does at times just plain move in formations, and if you want to live out on the edge with such a highly stylized technique and doing things others aren't doing, you need to execute on at least the same level on the things everyone else does. Those are my 2 cents, whatever that's worth in the economy nowadays .

All good points... that's exactly the difficult path that I was attempting to describe.

[traveller30]

All good points... that's exactly the difficult path that I was attempting to describe.

Difficult path that is difficult to describe . Took me a while to gut that one out.

As far as NV82's post about their son goes, where is it that the corps wants to go exactly? (I am asking everyone that is a Knight with an opinion on this. I don't want Keith to get the brunt of all this just because he is my man on the inside right now). Maintain a solid 4th to 8th showing every year with little levels in turnover? Push higher up into the top 12? Pull a Star? Act as a good training ground for other corps? (I really doubt that seeing as I have gone into knock downs with Rosalee over people leaving the corps.) Just to be up front about that last one, as I have said before, I do have issues with the way members have been treated when they have decided to move on to somewhere else.