traveller30 Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 (edited) Just want to point out that a lean back is not at all a plié. When a plié happens at BD, it is done with the correct technique (that is the goal at least). I get what you are doing here comparing something in one corps show, the unaligned layback at a musical hit (as opposed to a plié), with the approach of another corps… …Most corps spend their times getting everyone uniform in every way on the technical side of it. On visual segments they are all told to raise their arm at straight up or to bend your knees until you are in a sitting position or something like that. BK, on the other hand, doesn't say straight up or bend your knees until this point. They say "bring your arm as high as you can go" or "bend your knees to as low as you can go." Since people are just naturally different, you get significantly more variations from a visual side, but by stressing the individual performer you get this amazing uniformity within the effort and excellence portion, and if that's your goal then you get just as much credit for uniformity because your uniformity was in the emotion and not the actual visual itself.That's how BK approaches everything. They treat everything as an exercise in expressing and developing emotion rather than a literal uniformity. [snip] The remaining amount of a BD show, however, I would argue is geared toward a uniform approach to movement itself, and not at all trying to at least take half of the responsibility off of the members and say "Do whatever you want, but don't go over the top and make sure you look like you know what you're doing" and go to town with it? At some point you have some type of aligned movement in order to get credited. In addition, just as in my argument from the other thread (maybe I wasn't clear enough there, in deference to trying to not knock my alumni too much), I really don't feel that BK even has uniform approach to the EFFORT, much less the execution. If you were referring to another corps besides the Blue Knights, please correct me. Edited July 8, 2008 by traveller30 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plan9 Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 Ok umm... What are piles? Plie's are modified squats done in ballet, often with arm movements. Piles are what other corps do when they see BD rock the field! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SopMaster Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 (edited) When BD is at a hold and they're playing something fun/loud/etc, there's members who plie (spelling?). Now I'm not knocking the plie, because it's one of my favorite parts of any BD show. But not all members plie (in fact, I heard once it's only vets that are allowed...unless it's programmed in), and when certain ones do they rarely do it together and never drop the same height.So bottom line, why is this "ok" on the visual books, while the former mentioned scenario is not? I realize it's just part of BD's style, but then with that mentality couldn't any corps just write a completely random show or at least take half of the responsibility off of the members and say "Do whatever you want, but don't go over the top and make sure you look like you know what you're doing" and go to town with it? One, no it doesnt affect the visual book because they are like you said, at a hold. Two, what does a random show or taking half the responsibility have to do with "bending" at FFFFF moments? Bending is a natural movement when playing at super loud dynamics. Can you play a really high note, at your maximum volume, and stand straight up and it feel natural? Three, they rarely do it together because again as you stated, its done at a hold which probably equals what...probably playing something loud/chordal which equals...they have to stagger! Its the Blue Devils and they can do it because they have all their crap together. You can't just use ANY CORPS and the Blue Devils in the same sentence because BD isnt just any corps. They do it because it looks good, the crowd digs it, they produce extra volume because of it, and they do it because they are performing the hell out of their show and they are getting into it...The Blue Devil way. I will go even further to say it probably ups the GE as well. Also, they never sacrifice upper body and elbows when they do it so no, it shouldnt be judged. That is a trademark of BD. Blue Devils=Laid back, bad a**es PS. Planned or programmed "bending" usually looks bad (from what ive seen) and usually doesnt sell that well. Either it looks natural or its looks "corny" which is what alot of corps look like that try to emulate that "PUSH" effect. Madison and BD are pros at it. Edited July 9, 2008 by SopMaster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scout Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 Ok umm... What are piles? Piles are hemorrhoids. Plies are knee bends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouooga Posted July 9, 2008 Author Share Posted July 9, 2008 Just want to point out that a lean back is not at all a plié. When a plié happens at BD, it is done with the correct technique (that is the goal at least). I get what you are doing here comparing something in one corps show, the unaligned layback at a musical hit (as opposed to a plié), with the approach of another corps…The remaining amount of a BD show, however, I would argue is geared toward a uniform approach to movement itself, and not at all trying to At some point you have some type of aligned movement in order to get credited. In addition, just as in my argument from the other thread (maybe I wasn't clear enough there, in deference to trying to not knock my alumni too much), I really don't feel that BK even has uniform approach to the EFFORT, much less the execution. If you were referring to another corps besides the Blue Knights, please correct me. Wo wo wo.....I didn't mean to offend anyone nor did I attack any corps including the Blue Devils nor did I ever mention the name of any other corps. I was asking a question because I like visual and just wanted to know how it was judged. If anyone took that to mean anything more than the literal text that I wrote than you have made a mistake. And what I said in another thread about another corps has absolutely nothing to do with this post. I was literally at home during lunch and watched Summer Train Blues Mix and just thought "hmm, I wonder why that is," so when I got back to the office I thought maybe someone on DCP could answer the question in a polite manner. Plain and simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouooga Posted July 9, 2008 Author Share Posted July 9, 2008 One, no it doesnt affect the visual book because they are like you said, at a hold. Two, what does a random show or taking half the responsibility have to do with "bending" at FFFFF moments? Bending is a natural movement when playing at super loud dynamics. Can you play a really high note, at your maximum volume, and stand straight up and it feel natural? Three, they rarely do it together because again as you stated, its done at a hold which probably equals what...probably playing something loud/chordal which equals...they have to stagger! Its the Blue Devils and they can do it because they have all their crap together. You can't just use ANY CORPS and the Blue Devils in the same sentence because BD isnt just any corps. They do it because it looks good, the crowd digs it, they produce extra volume because of it, and they do it because they are performing the hell out of their show and they are getting into it...The Blue Devil way. I will go even further to say it probably ups the GE as well. Also, they never sacrifice upper body and elbows when they do it so no, it shouldnt be judged. That is a trademark of BD. What will make you people happy? When all the corps, do the same crap?? I dont get it... We have our strict corps, our old school corps, our confident corps, let BD and others keep being the bad a**es with swagger. Drum corps needs variety. Look at BD now, they are doing everything people asked them to change. You asked them to march more, they are constantly moving and even running, now they are doing all these little cutesy body movements and plum work you would never think BD would do AND they sound fanstastic AND they arent using narration. Give them a break for once. Blue Devils=Laid back, bad a**es PS. Planned or programmed "bending" usually looks bad (from what ive seen) and usually doesnt sell that well. Either it looks natural or its looks "corny" which is what alot of corps look like that try to emulate that "PUSH" effect. Madison and BD are pros at it. Somehow you've turned me asking a question into some absurd attack that makes me question the validity now in the majority of things you've said. I asked one question about BD from a visual standpoint and feel like I've been hit upside the head for doing. It wasn't even a "let's change this" or "let's all do this" question. It was a simple question about a corps that I like and wanted to know more. However, since I'm worked up now and feel like taking this one apart..... One, no it doesnt affect the visual book because they are like you said, at a hold. Hold are not, if you are in a show, you are being judged on visual. If a corps just held for an entire show, they would still be judged for spacing, posture, alignment, individual responsibility, individual carriage, and every other thing. Am I correct in thinking that you've just said that once a corps holds the visual judge can go grab a soda? Two, what does a random show or taking half the responsibility have to do with "bending" at FFFFF moments? Bending is a natural movement when playing at super loud dynamics. Can you play a really high note, at your maximum volume, and stand straight up and it feel natural? Bending may be a natural movement, but not every corps does it. Phantom plays loud as heck and as far as I can remember, they do not plie or bend to do it. Not saying either way is right or wrong...again, really just asking "why." But as far as having to do with individual responsibility, I personally like how the plie adds to the visual package, which at least in my mind makes it a part of the visual book. But, as much as it adds, the lack of uniformity does make me wonder "why are some visuals uniform and others not and both are ok?" Again, just a question, not a statement or a suggestion. What will make you people happy? When all the corps, do the same crap?? I dont get it... We have our strict corps, our old school corps, our confident corps, let BD and others keep being the bad a**es with swagger. Drum corps needs variety. Look at BD now, they are doing everything people asked them to change. You asked them to march more, they are constantly moving and even running, now they are doing all these little cutesy body movements and plum work you would never think BD would do AND they sound fanstastic AND they arent using narration. Give them a break for once. Somehow I don't see how asking a question for the sake of knowledge is the same thing as suggesting that all corps do the same thing. I've personally been a fan of variety among the corps and don't want to see change. As far as the running goes, I actually defended the running in that thread if you want to take a look. I've never asked these things that you claim, yet you've chosen to finish your attack on me with this glamorous statement. Way to go! Anyone in the Holocaust you'd like to attack next for trying to gain some knowledge by reading a book and asking questions? Forgive me for wanting to know a little more about one of the most successful corps in history. Next time I have a question I'll just go ahead and burn a book or something. Thanks for the warm feelings amongst fellow drum corps folks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SopMaster Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 Sorry for jumping to conclusions, its my natural reaction to most BD hating DCPers. Glad to hear BD 2004 is still being enjoyed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traveller30 Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 One, no it doesnt affect the visual book because they are like you said, at a hold. I should have brought up that point originally. I think I am going to go with Ockham's Razor on this one. It's at a halt, stand on your head for all I care . You can't just use ANY CORPS and the Blue Devils in the same sentence because BD isnt just any corps. I appreciate your energy, but I would say that Oouga's argument falls down exactly because ANYONE can do the layback if they decide to. I really think he is trying to prop up BK's approach to body and movement (and supposed inherent lack of uniformity) with something that is not at all analogous. What will make you people happy? When all the corps, do the same crap?? I dont get it... We have our strict corps, our old school corps, our confident corps, let BD and others keep being the bad a**es with swagger. Drum corps needs variety. Look at BD now, they are doing everything people asked them to change. You asked them to march more, they are constantly moving and even running, now they are doing all these little cutesy body movements and plum work you would never think BD would do AND they sound fanstastic AND they arent using narration. Give them a break for once. Easy now… take that chip off, nice and slowly… yowsa… Blue Devils=Laid back, bad a**es Only when it's Brian Kettlehut. Now THERE was a bad***. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SopMaster Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 Look I edited mine. I am sorry. Its been one of those days and ever since I joined DCP, I see nothing but people flaming BD and it just got to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traveller30 Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 Hold are not, if you are in a show, you are being judged on visual. If a corps just held for an entire show, they would still be judged for spacing, posture, alignment, individual responsibility, individual carriage, and every other thing. Am I correct in thinking that you've just said that once a corps holds the visual judge can go grab a soda? Amending what I said before. Stand on your head for all I care… but watch those spaces and alignment in a bounding line whilst on your head. (two smilies for emPHAsis) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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