Liam Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Agreed on the last point. I suspect that religious types would have less problem speaking with a counsellor than non-religious types would with a chaplain. The chaplain may serve the needs of the Christian kids better overall. Fortunately drum corps is not restricted to Christian denominations (although is Pioneer kinda doing that with the church requirement?) Well, I think that although the chaplain and the counsellor overlap on many issues that may arise, they also each serve a unique purpose from the other. There are many things that folks would be comfortable going to either with and then there are issues that you wouldn't feel comfortable telling your priest about, but you might tell an objective counsellor. Likewise, there are issue that a counsellor just can't help you with because they are more in the realm of the chaplain (spiritual issues, et al). Not that a counseller can't touch on spiritual issues and a chaplain can't touch on secular issues or issues from another faith/religion, of course, just talking in generalities. The chaplain also offers services other than counselling that members may find valuable (mass, sacraments, etc). Fact of the matter is, I've gotten great help and advice from priests and also lousy advice from priests. I've gotten great advice/help from professionals and also lousy help. And I've gotten great advice and help from family/friends/co-workers and lousy advice there, as well. So. although the training is important, it still comes down to the individaul and your repor with them. At the end of the day, having someone good to talk to can be helpful -- chaplains and counsellers (assuming both are part of the good ones) are interchangeable at some level, but at others are not, so the unique gifts that each could bring to a drum corps on tour would be beneficial to those who choose to partake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BozzlyB Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 1. Look up the definition of "forced."2. You clearly have issues. Your posts seem to have an angry vibe to them. 3. I'll pray for you. Re: #3. I absolutely hate it when people take the initiative to make this statement. It implies that the person in question is sub-standard, on the wrong track, has it all wrong, etc... It may be the most condescending thing you can say to someone. If someone requests that you pray for them that is one thing. To just throw it out there as though you are judge and jury of someone else's needs is just maddening. Religion is the single most divisive force in the history of mankind. And before you or anyone else types a reply, DON'T pray for me, I don't need the extra baggage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kusankusho Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Re: #3. I absolutely hate it when people take the initiative to make this statement. It implies that the person in question is sub-standard, on the wrong track, has it all wrong, etc... It may be the most condescending thing you can say to someone. If someone requests that you pray for them that is one thing. To just throw it out there as though you are judge and jury of someone else's needs is just maddening. Religion is the single most divisive force in the history of mankind. And before you or anyone else types a reply, DON'T pray for me, I don't need the extra baggage. Glad I scanned to the bottom of the thread before I posted a reply to the follow up on this. Thank you Bozzly - exactly as I would have wanted to say it. Time to move on, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kusankusho Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Well, I think that although the chaplain and the counsellor overlap on many issues that may arise, they also each serve a unique purpose from the other. There are many things that folks would be comfortable going to either with and then there are issues that you wouldn't feel comfortable telling your priest about, but you might tell an objective counsellor. Likewise, there are issue that a counsellor just can't help you with because they are more in the realm of the chaplain (spiritual issues, et al). Not that a counseller can't touch on spiritual issues and a chaplain can't touch on secular issues or issues from another faith/religion, of course, just talking in generalities. The chaplain also offers services other than counselling that members may find valuable (mass, sacraments, etc).Fact of the matter is, I've gotten great help and advice from priests and also lousy advice from priests. I've gotten great advice/help from professionals and also lousy help. And I've gotten great advice and help from family/friends/co-workers and lousy advice there, as well. So. although the training is important, it still comes down to the individaul and your repor with them. At the end of the day, having someone good to talk to can be helpful -- chaplains and counsellers (assuming both are part of the good ones) are interchangeable at some level, but at others are not, so the unique gifts that each could bring to a drum corps on tour would be beneficial to those who choose to partake. About as balanced a view as can be taken. I agree with what you are saying here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 (edited) Re: #3. I absolutely hate it when people take the initiative to make this statement. It implies that the person in question is sub-standard, on the wrong track, has it all wrong, etc... It may be the most condescending thing you can say to someone. If someone requests that you pray for them that is one thing. To just throw it out there as though you are judge and jury of someone else's needs is just maddening. Religion is the single most divisive force in the history of mankind. And before you or anyone else types a reply, DON'T pray for me, I don't need the extra baggage. I agree that it sounds condescending, but usually that's not the intent. People pray for their families and friends and all kinds of things and people that doesn't at all imply that those people need "saving", just that you wish the best for them. That said, I do agree that it comes off as condescending, esp in a typed format like this, so it isbetter to just do it without announcing it .... Second point, though, and not to get too CE here, but I would say that religion has been used and abused throughout history by divisive people who were troublemakers to begin with -- people both within the religion structure and also without. Religion, (or more appropriately), people connected to religious organizations have also been behind some of greatest forces for good in the history of mankind as well, so how about we blame and praise the individuals and not the religion? To get back on topic (and avoid the CE police ), a religious presence in a corps for those who want it is a good thing, imo. For those that don't, that's fine too and any secular support that a corps can provide on tour would be beneficial as well. It comes down to the person volunteering and what they can offer -- if a member finds value in it, then great!!! If he/she doesn't, then no harm done. Edited July 16, 2008 by Liam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbl Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Catholic or Catholic Lite........................ "fairly" universal? You've got a bit confused with using Catholic "Lite", Lutherans are still catholics in the wide sense of the term. You'd be better off using what the Orthodox do when describing western churches. They suggest an algebraic expression of "with or without a" to differentiate western churches. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Hey there, everybody. There's been some really great discussion in this thread. The exploration of the relationship between DCI and religion has been pretty much taken as far as it can go in the thread, and it's now starting to vier more toward general religious debate. Closing the thread. Any questions can be sent to any of the Forum Support Team. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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