Qualified to judge?

[eemuam]

Hi, I had a question. I am not a guard person and don't consider myself to be very knowledgeable about color guard. My knowledge comes from viewing (I attend many contests), people (I know many people that have a lot of experience in guard from many different eras), and from being a part of activities that incorporate color guard. So here is my question... some people on here have said that what the guards are doing is not "color guard"... what does that mean? What era represents "color guard?" Because to me... it seems that one's definition would soley be based upon their personal experience. I am sure that someone's experience from the 30's would be much different than someone from the 60's and the same with the 80's and the current era. So what you do you consider to be the "essence" of color guard? Maybe I am just raising a question just for the sake of it... but to me one could easily say that people from today's era could say "guard from the 70's was not real color guard because it didn't incorporate dance and theatrics into it. Finally color guard has evolved to a point where it is truly color guard" I am not saying I believe this but it is something to think about. I guess what I personally like to see is growth... there is a limit on what color guards could do under a certain style so they changed (maybe not for the good and maybe not for that bad)... this has been true forever! So maybe that is the "essence" of guard... it is always changing and growing and evolving. If the guards today were doing the exact same thing they were 20 years ago... I would be let down. Instead of being color guard it would be a stagnant, antiquated activity. Just some of my thoughts... what do you guys/gals think? I am curious.

Andy

[SBrancheau]

Hi Andy!

This is my definition of color guard:

Flags

Rifles

Sabres

Notice there's no dance...no "body movement"...or VERY little. It's all about equipment work

If you want to see MY definition of color guard, please get the 1980 DCI Finals DVD and watch the 27th Lancers. They are the EPITOME of what color guard should be: clean, exciting, unforgettable.

It's enhancing the music with one or more of those 3 things: flags, rifles and sabres. No spinning tires, rotating columns, no tarps on the floor, NO PROPS! Very little dance.

Most guards have gotten so far away from what guard SHOULD be, what they're doing is what I'd call "dance theatrics". Oh, MAYBE they'll pick up a piece of equipment for awhile, but there's poor technique (and their dance technique isn't the best, either) in the equipment work. Instructors aren't teaching proper technique in either dance OR equipment. Equipment work on flags, sabres and rifles is becoming a lost art.

Does that help you any?

I can be less opinionated, if you'd like.

Yeah, right... ^0^

[eemuam]

Hi Sally, thanks for your reply. What you say makes sense and don't worry... I am young but I most definitely own and watch the '80 dvd. I understand what you are saying, I guess my "belief" would be that it is fine and good that dance etc. is being added into color guard but the trick is that it must be done well. What I don't agree with is adding or doing something simply for the sake of doing it. I feel that it is cool to add stuff if you have the basics, whatever they may be, undercontrol. I would say that dance does have a place in color guard (along with other things) but as with anything... the quality of the performance is what determines its success. Good dance = good color guard and bad dance = bad color guard just like it would be with good/bad equipment work. Cuz afterall the "back in the day" guards marched and that is just another form of movement (aka dance). It's all relative. I very much appreciate your input Sally and am interested in what anyone else thinks. Take care.

Andy

[ScribeToo]

it seems that one's definition would soley be based upon their personal experience. I am sure that someone's experience from the 30's would be much different than someone from the 60's and the same with the 80's and the current era.

You're absolutely right, Andy.. it must depend upon your experience in the idiom.

As for the question "what is the essence?" -- hmm.. tough call. I think you have to break it down to what is the basic function of the color guard -- and that can only be related to the show style of the era it's being used in..

You could never get away with using a 60s style color guard in an 80s style drum corps show. You could also never get away with using a modern (read: current) style color guard in a 50s style drum corps show. Neither would be beneficial to the purpose of either of those shows.

Would I like to see MORE equipment work? YES absolutely. I want to see skill and execution -- dance is wonderful, I like it a lot but I wish it wasn't the focus of so many color guard books. It should be the foundation, yes.. IMO. But too often guards are on a football field with NOTHING in their hands.. just dancing. Or soloists dancing. IMO that doesn't project enough visual impact. I would rather see guards with a flag in their hands than sabres .. but sabres rather than nothing.

I hope this makes sense. I think you can't take colorguard out of context and say "this era" is the one that defines color guard.. because NO era of color guard could carry through ALL eras of field shows.

ow. my head hurts.

Stef

[SBrancheau]

Hi Sally, thanks for your reply.  What you say makes sense and don't worry... I am young but I most definitely own and watch the '80 dvd.  I understand what you are saying, I guess my "belief" would be that it is fine and good that dance etc. is being added into color guard but the trick is that it must be done well.  What I don't agree with is adding or doing something simply for the sake of doing it.  I feel that it is cool to add stuff if you have the basics, whatever they may be, undercontrol.  I would say that dance does have a place in color guard (along with other things) but as with anything... the quality of the performance is what determines its success.  Good dance = good color guard and bad dance = bad color guard just like it would be with good/bad equipment work.  Cuz afterall the "back in the day" guards marched and that is just another form of movement (aka dance).  It's all relative.  I very much appreciate your input Sally and am interested in what anyone else thinks.  Take care.

Andy

HOLY SCHNIEKIES!

SOMEBODY GETS IT!

b**bs

[ScribeToo]

HOLY SCHNIEKIES!

SOMEBODY GETS IT!

b**bs

are you sitting down, Sally?

he's a junior corps kid!

b**bs hope for the future, baby!!

[TerriDitt57]

HOLY SCHNIEKIES!

SOMEBODY GETS IT!

b**bs

are you sitting down, Sally?

he's a junior corps kid!

b**bs hope for the future, baby!!

Actually most of the junior corps kids are very rational, openminded and mature.

[SBrancheau]

You could never get away with using a 60s style color guard in an 80s style drum corps show.  You could also never get away with using a modern (read: current) style color guard in a 50s style drum corps show.  Neither would be beneficial to the purpose of either of those shows.

Would I like to see MORE equipment work?  YES absolutely.  I want to see skill and execution -- dance is wonderful, I like it a lot but I wish it wasn't the focus of so many color guard books.  It should be the foundation, yes.. IMO.  But too often guards are on a football field with NOTHING in their hands.. just dancing.  Or soloists dancing.  IMO that doesn't project enough visual impact.  I would rather see guards with a flag in their hands than sabres .. but sabres rather than nothing.

I hope this makes sense.  I think you can't take colorguard out of context and say "this era" is the one that defines color guard.. because NO era of color guard could carry through ALL eras of field shows.

Ooo Stef...you're so close!

"I hope this makes sense. I think you can't take colorguard out of context and say "this era" is the one that defines color guard.. because NO era of color guard could carry through ALL eras of field shows."

But it should. It is difficult to compare the 50's and 60's color guards, because of the "military" function it served. When you get into the 80's, however, is when guard started cooking! I think 27 Lancers started it. *I* wanted to be in the 27th Lancers, but the commute from Indianapolis to Revere, MA would have been killer. b**bs

Look at 1987 Cadets' guard. Gorgeous uniforms (leaning towards a costume, but still a uniform), and a guard that was pretty clean. Same with 1987 Phantom guard. Their uniforms really were costumes, but with the show's theme, it worked, and well. What common thread runs through 79-80 Lancers, 87 Cadets and Phantom...they still did equipment work. Phantom and Cadets both had a "solo" dancer, solo flag, but for the most part, equipment work was being executed without a large majority of dance.

I want to see the return of 90-100% equipment work and 0-10% dance. I don't think that's a unreasonable request.

[ScribeToo]

I want to see the return of 90-100% equipment work and 0-10% dance. I don't think that's a unreasonable request.

on this we agree, 1,000,000%

I think dance is elemental, though, for the shows of today.

You couldn't stick an 80s colorguard into a show in 2003 and expect it to 1) fit and 2) succeed. MHO, of course, but I think the color guard book of a 1980s show would be left in the dust of an overall field show of 2003... so I think Dance MUST be elemental.. but I don't think it needs to be the ONLY element nor do I think it should be the STRONGEST element.. I think it should be incorporated (and in some cases IS.. but not enough for my tastes).

Stef

[sokkerboie]

Hi Andy!

This is my definition of color guard:

Flags

Rifles

Sabres

Notice there's no dance...no "body movement"...or VERY little. It's all about equipment work

It's enhancing the music with one or more of those 3 things: flags, rifles and sabres. No spinning tires, rotating columns, no tarps on the floor, NO PROPS! Very little dance.

Most guards have gotten so far away from what guard SHOULD be, what they're doing is what I'd call "dance theatrics". Oh, MAYBE they'll pick up a piece of equipment for awhile, but there's poor technique (and their dance technique isn't the best, either) in the equipment work. Instructors aren't teaching proper technique in either dance OR equipment. Equipment work on flags, sabres and rifles is becoming a lost art.

I agree with you - to some degree - remember that without the body there would be no manipulation of flags, rifles and sabres. And I think it' sexciting (for those groups that actually do) learn how body and muscular effort affect the silk, the pole, the rifle and the sabre - there are MANY variations to explore all dealing with muscle tension and flexation, how using other parts of the body help to "interpret" the music.

I agree color guard is about VISUAL PORTRAYAL OF MUSICAL/AUDIBLE IDEAS. Too many guards have strayed from this - sometimes entire shows make no sense at all compared to the musical score. That is why (in marching band and corps at least) I write to the score as well as the soundtrack.

But you have to relaize that there is growth in art - in visual art (just take a glance through the various periods and you will see changes, development, growth - some for good some straying WAY off path), music (classical, modern, jazz, hip hop, techno all evolved from what came before), dance (modern and jazz developed from ballet and classical training) and theatre (musical theatre comes from the idioms of opera and classical/greek theatre). So some changes are not bad - such as being able to represent the color guard idiom with a strong and evocative movement phrase.

But I agree, the emphasis needs to be on how the equipment ALONG WITH the body represents the artistic ideas of the designer and the music/sounds he/she hears.

AND LETS GET BACK TO TECHNIQUE!!!!! It's about time some of these so-self-called divas learn that what they are teaching (from a movement standpoint) couldnt' be farther from technically correct - take a few dance classes!