Qualified to judge?

[masterles]

Wow! This thread gets me all giddy. I just wanted to thank you all for the great input, or at least what I consider great input. I began instructing this past winterguard season, and will instruct for my collegiate marching colorguard as well. However, I have never marched corps or competed in winterguard. And I can't say that my one year of high school or past few years at college have taught me much. So, when I recently began instructing, I felt like I was at the bottom of the barrel of instructors. I reasoned that without any corps or winterguard experience, I had little to offer my newly formed winterguard of six.

Just about the time I started up the winterguard, I discovered the Planets. Hallelujah! I was saved. Or so I thought. After a few months of posts, I felt my time was being wasted though, since my questions concerning colorguard were still unanswered. At the same time, I choreographed a show which I was proud of, but more importantly, my guard enjoyed performing for their winterguard show. Now, I had signed my guard to perform twice in the North Star Circuit. Granted, my guard was Regional A Class, but I worried they would look wholly under par even for their level. I visited the Irondale Winterguard Show to check out what the circuit had to offer. Now, I may have a big ego, but from what I saw, my guard had equal or more vocabulary with flags than the Class A units I compared them too, maybe even some of the Open Class too. Also, dance was a focus for many of the units, and I found myself yawning through them. It boosted my esteem that my guard had not one lick of dance work only, but a show that incorporated three different styles of dance WITH equipment work. Once I saw what others were doing, I realized that little ole me, with really no good background in colorguard, maybe had what it takes to be a quality instructor.

Eventually, this forum started getting some of you great peoples. :P And after many posts, I didn't feel I was off the mark in my instruction. For me, this post has been a great building block for my future as an instructor. All you past and current instructors are my default mentors, so thanks. This Planet rocks!

Now, I have a question following my last post in this thread. Is collaborative learning welcomed in the corps and winterguard activities? To specify, I am curious if units welcome other instructors or students to observe/participate in their practices. Personally, I feel I would benefit most as a newbie instructor if I could shadow a corps/winterguard. As a solution to teach upcoming instructors effective methods and leadership skills, I wondered what the possibilities are for creating a mentor program for instructors. I think clinics are great for students and instructors alike, however, I feel as a newbie instructor I would benefit far more if I could see the process first hand throughout a season. Is there any such program around? If not, is the concept feasible in today's activities?

[Malibu]

masteries, I think that would be a very good thing for you to do.....shadow a guard instructor for a few months and learn how to become a "teacher."

A very good friend of mine never had the opportunity to march, but he did "shadow" many great instructors and asked many questions to leading guard judges. I must say, his guards have always done well despite his lack of experience. He is so into what is going on with the activity, that he will frequently fly across the country to check out guard programs so he can stay in check with the competition. B)

[LancerFi]

Hi Sally, thanks for your reply. What you say makes sense and don't worry... I am young but I most definitely own and watch the '80 dvd. I understand what you are saying, I guess my "belief" would be that it is fine and good that dance etc. is being added into color guard but the trick is that it must be done well. What I don't agree with is adding or doing something simply for the sake of doing it. I feel that it is cool to add stuff if you have the basics, whatever they may be, undercontrol. I would say that dance does have a place in color guard (along with other things) but as with anything... the quality of the performance is what determines its success. Good dance = good color guard and bad dance = bad color guard just like it would be with good/bad equipment work. Cuz afterall the "back in the day" guards marched and that is just another form of movement (aka dance). It's all relative. I very much appreciate your input Sally and am interested in what anyone else thinks. Take care.

Andy

b**bs ooowh ooowh Andy, the next time you watch if you're interested, I split the 50 the #2 side...so if you're watching I'm on the right hand side, closest to the 50, and stay there from OTL to concert and throught the next song "On the 20th Century", then there is no more side to side so to speak for the drum solo and Danny Boy.

Unfortunately that is the only year that I don't have a long close up, but I have the interview with Zingali right after coming off the field, but that doesn't seem to be on the video....weep, weep, weep.

Back to our regularly scheduled program.

Signed,

The Militant One

[GMichael1230]

Unfortunately that is the only year that I don't have a long close up, but I have the interview with Zingali right after coming off the field, but that doesn't seem to be on the video....weep, weep, weep.

Back to our regularly scheduled program.

Signed,

The Militant One

Ha ha ha ha...I got it, I got it !!! LOL

~G~

[FLDancrgrl]

I quit instructing in the middle 90's because though my guards were EXTREMELY technically proficient we did not overutilize dance within any of our shows. We never scored well even though we had clean catches, frequently did double time from the left and right hands, equipment exchanges, work in unison all done cleanly and technically correct.

I think dance has killed equipment handling and will eventually lead to the rifle, flag, and sabre less show. No recognizable equipment. I think dance has taken away the surprise and thrill from guard work.

I love something Steve B told me one day. He said that if it can't be seen from the pressbox, or doesn't make people jump to their feet, then its a wasted move. That probably explains the constant tossing, tumbling, flag tosses over horn lines and props, rifle tosses over a pyramid of guard members, and MANY other outrageous things done CLEANLY that his furtle mind thought up b**bs .......

Dancing should be apart of colorguard within the realm of WGI only. IMO it is totally inappropriate for the field. When you ask what the best colorguards were, 27th lancers 79-80 guard will be at the top of that list. Will the 2002 BD? Not on mine.

You are correct, the field is a TOTALLY different animal from WGI. Dance should not, by any means, be a big thing in the fall. Now, I don't mind a dance solo during the slow song to get ready for the big flag hit in the middle. But I do believe guards take it to far. Guard is guard and you should be using equipment. You are tiny, microscopic! on the field. You can't see what they are doing anyway if you are sitting up top! But, true to my dance fundamentals, they should still be taught. Dance technique should still be taught. A guard that can not only spin, but jump/leap while they are doing it.... that's a pretty cool effect. You can still see lack of energy, and lack of body technique, from the pressbox. But I agree. When I go to a field show, I want to be amazed by the equipment these young people have mastered. You dance around the field a lot, you definitely don't have my attention anymore. Technique is the important thing, ALWAYS! Dance, equipment... all of it should still be taught and mastered. But they should be put to different use between the field and the gym floor. :P

[FLDancrgrl]

Doesn't it send your blood boiling when you see a show and it's so incredibly breathtaking, yet the technique is so sloppy it defies description? I just fume inside and say to myself, "Just give me a week with them...I'd clean that thing up!" That is one of the very best things I do...I'm not as good on dance, but man, can I clean! Most instructors don't know how to break a piece down and clean it. And the thing is to clean it (and keep it clean) before the group has a chance to really get their habits set (bad arm placement, hand positions, foot positions, etc.).

If so many of us want to see a return to more equipment work and less gratuitous dance, what do we have to do? Hopefully, the high muckety-mucks of DCI and WGI are seeing these posts and taking them back to their groups.

You don't know how many times I have sat through a WGI show and gone "I would kick their butts into shape.... THAT should definitely be cleaner.... FOR THE LOVE OF GOD POINT YOUR FEET!!!..... Uh, yea...solid catch there would have been great, especially since the ENTIRE GUARD bobbled it...." It is amazing! I can't understand how their instructors let them go out there like that. My senior year in high school, I was captain. Our instructor disappeared during the summer, so I also had to do that. Technique drills everyday!! We would do wind tunnels every rehearsal.... get it together or we don't stop. Good, you got it together, now keep going for awhile and take in what it feels like and MEMORIZE how it feels to do it correctly. Put that to muscle memory. Where has that gone? How is it now acceptable for some people to just do things not together? You watch rifle and saber lines toss and their hands are all different and they are all catching in different places... You are exactly right, take it one count at a time until they KNOW how their body is supposed to feel on that count, then move on to the next one. And it needs to be done very very soon after it is taught. Otherwise, you're right, they get into bad habits, wrong muscle memory, and it can take way way way to much time to fix (expecially since it is preventable!) Glad to see all the guard instructors out there haven't gone soft :) I am all about getting in there kicking butt, and taking names :P

Everyone, this is an awesome forum! Fabulous conversation and it gives me a lot to think about. Thanks so much!

[eemuam]

Nancy - I watched the '80 27th Lancers dvd again playing special attention to the guard. GET IT!!! :) There are some very cool moments in there, my favorite was the flag exchanges while the rifles were in the middle on the 50. Very awesome stuff. And I saw your closeup. My girlfriend, who marches guard and has since she was quite young, loved it. Her favorites were the toss were you caught with one hand on the 45 and the one were the rifles tossed to each other.

Here is my view on the whole situation... I think it is VERY important to have the basics down. But at the same time there is a balance. Most people that do winterguard/drum corps/marching band aren't looking to know every in and out of their specific part of the game (not saying this is good or bad, just saying that I think it is true). Most people aren't going to devote their lives to it like I am or many of you have done. They are just looking for a fun experience. So I think it is important to find that balance. Young people today like precise equipment work but they also like groups to break out into a dance feature to hip hop music. Now I do agree... if people were exposed to stuff like the work done by the 27th Lancers they would love it and want to do it. But at the same time, people want to do dance and they want to do stuff that is more prevelant in contemporary culture. So if that brings more people into the activity.... then awesome, we can use that bridge to expose them to our activity. So my personal view is that dance is cool and if it is done WELL I don't see how it is a bad thing... the key is that the equipment work isn't forgotten/lessened because of this. What do you guys think?

Andy

[masterles]

Just a question.

Where can I find DVDs of older shows? I keep seeing everyone talk about this or that DVD. But all I have been able to find are DVDs of the past 3 years or so. I am starting to build my DCI/WGI collection, and I'd prefer to be purchasing DVDs.

Guide me to the light!

[Malibu]

Just a question.

Where can I find DVDs of older shows?  I keep seeing everyone talk about this or that DVD.  But all I have been able to find are DVDs of the past 3 years or so.  I am starting to build my DCI/WGI collection, and I'd prefer to be purchasing DVDs. 

Guide me to the light!

You can purchase older DVD's through DCI. They cost $39.00 a piece and they are well worth it!

Click here for more information;

http://store.dci.org/products.asp?dept=34

Check out WGI DVD's by going here;

http://wgi.org/2003/

Edited April 19, 2003 by Malibu

[Spinninchick63]

Well I don't know how this post went from discussing being qualified to judge to tearing apart modern colorguard. But I feel the need to post my opnions so I will.

I am almost 19 years old and I have marched 3 different winterguards , 1 marching band colorguard and 1 drum corps colorguard. All with different staffs. Some of you seem to assume that dancing is being taught over equipment technique now a days and that is just not true. Under all of these staffs equipment technique has come first. Flag block as always the longest part of rehearsal next to the cleaning of the show. I suggest you go check out a winterguard rehearsal before you start making assumptions.

As for dance in shows...in IA I beleive the required equipment time is 3 minutes or 3 and a half minutes,out of a 4 minute show. I have been on a guard where the the whole opening was a dance section and it was beautiful and I have been on a guard where I danced for about 16 counts the whole show. I liked doing both shows equally. I have been to WGI regionals WGI championships for 3 years a in a row now, I love seeing any kind of show that is done well and I think @ most WGI events the majority of the shows are done pretty well,if we are going on finals.

I love the breath and movement put into guard shows now. This doesn't mean you have to be out there dancing for half of the show. It just means that everything moves together nicely, the flag is an extension of you or rifle or sabre. I have seen guards of the past and now and I prefer the look of colorguard now more than the military style. I am not saying anything bad about the military style,just saying what I prefer more.

To say guards don't spin anymore is just ridicoulous...alot of guards out there are doing some awesome work and spinning their butts off, it seems like you people just refuse to give any credit.

If you can toss a 6 and catch it solid, that's great, but if you can toss a 6 and do something under it *and* catch it solid then of course I would rather see that, but only if you can do it.

You know I am not even a dancer at all, maybe I have lucked out being on guards who don't make us non dancers leap around ungracefully on the floor, I feel like anything I have had to do was wrote over my head. And yes I have seen guards where I wandered why they would even try and dance but I have seen more guards pull it off as well.

WGI finals were sold out this year,which means some people must like what is going on. I think there are many great guards out now. And if you don't like something you don't have to watch it. I at times have been torn on how much dance is too much dance. But I still see plenty of great equipment work everytime I go to a show.

So I have definatley rambled for awhile here,just had to get some things off of my chest.