In light of the retreat discussion

[Jared_mello]

Another problem (and it has probably already been said) is that the individual isn't being looked at per se' - it is now "The Cavies" or "The Blue Coats". When you are in uniform and representing an organization, that is what happens, which is unfortunate but a fact. We may never know the personal identity of whomever was laying at the feet of the Cadets, but we definitely know who they were representing and therefore the enitre corps takes the blame and the entire corps reputation is tarnished.

dont be so shortsighted.....the reputation of the boston crusaders would be horrifically "tarnished" by now if we're generalizing the actions of a few overzealous individuals.

i disagree with your opinion anyway so i don't feel as if that's the case, but seriously, with all of the "minor incidents" that members of boston have been involved in DURING THE LAST FEW YEARS (not even referencing the 60's, 70's, 80's, etc.), you should probably take a step back from the computer and think about what you're writing.

hell, if the actions of one person are permanently representative of the history of their drum corps, there'd probably be about 10 corps out of the 50 or 60 or whatever existing drum corps that i would still respect.

ps, bluecoats is one word.

[NV82]

There is, but it's not always obvious to people who are new to the activity -- and unless it's taught to the marching members (by people like us, really -- the corps staff grew from, and love, drum corps like we do), they won't learn it, either.

It's still collectively "our" activity, from the 2008 rookies to the old alumni. It's "our" job to teach about, and preserve, what traditions we have while allowing the activity to grow and move forward.

I really admire and respect your reply. I’m not an alumni but I’m not new to the activity. I’ve followed drum corps as a fan for the past 28 years. I do think you have a great point that as alumni it is in fact your activity and you ultimately have the task of ensuring that traditions continue. But the thing I admire most about this attitude is the understanding that the activity needs to be allowed to grow. And well, you all have kept me hooked through the years, so I’ll trust your judgment.

[CheezMaster]

everyone get over it. its done. not worth #####ing about anymore.

[rayfallon]

In the discussion of retreat behavior, one of the posts was from a 23-year old staffer who basically said he chooses not to focus on tradition and discipline in uniform because he would rather focus on performance excellence. In my response, I asserted that the two were not mutually exclusive, and one was not more important than the other. I also said that educating members that stupid BS in uniform is just as bad as slacking off at rehearsal is really a simple matter and easy to do.

So, here are some questions:

What is the responsibility of the corps leadership (directors, caption heads, drum major, corps commander, etc.) when it comes to behavior in uniform?

Are young instructors expected to help guide the character of the young people in their care just as much as they are the musical and movement work of the members?

Are those instructors mentored by older, trusted staff with a proven record of good standards regarding behavior in uniform?

Just some questions to start us off.

II have 1,000 thoughts on this, all of which agree with your central premise - but I'll sum up all my brain meanderings by saying that tradition matters. Dedication to that tradition matters. Belonging to a corps and being guided by its principles and hence its traditions, matters. I also believe, as you seem to, that it should matter to the instructoral staff as well, and that when it doesn't, the bond between member and corps will never be as strong, as the instructoral staff facilitates that bonding process because the members (in many cases) look up to them, and aspire to being like them.

That's as short as I could make it. Thanks for the post.

[DCIHasBeen]

II have 1,000 thoughts on this, all of which agree with your central premise - but I'll sum up all my brain meanderings by saying that tradition matters. Dedication to that tradition matters. Belonging to a corps and being guided by its principles and hence its traditions, matters. I also believe, as you seem to, that it should matter to the instructoral staff as well, and that when it doesn't, the bond between member and corps will never be as strong, as the instructoral staff facilitates that bonding process because the members (in many cases) look up to them, and aspire to being like them.

That's as short as I could make it. Thanks for the post.

Well said.

[BACMom]

dont be so shortsighted.....the reputation of the boston crusaders would be horrifically "tarnished" by now if we're generalizing the actions of a few overzealous individuals.

i disagree with your opinion anyway so i don't feel as if that's the case, but seriously, with all of the "minor incidents" that members of boston have been involved in DURING THE LAST FEW YEARS (not even referencing the 60's, 70's, 80's, etc.), you should probably take a step back from the computer and think about what you're writing.

hell, if the actions of one person are permanently representative of the history of their drum corps, there'd probably be about 10 corps out of the 50 or 60 or whatever existing drum corps that i would still respect.

ps, bluecoats is one word.

Not quite sure why my post upset you so. I was merely trying to say that it is completely UNFAIR that an entire corps is being held responsible (in the public eye) or looked down upon because of the actions of a few. Whether we like it or not, or agree or not, that is what happens. I can promise you that as this subject comes up in future conversations, it will be referred to as "what the Cavies did in retreat in '08", or "what the Bluecoats did in retreat in '08" just as it is with other corps from other incidents in the past including The Boston Crusaders (or most any other corps for that matter). I feel bad for the members that now have to "live this down". I have read right here, on this discussion board, how some are thinking of pulling their financial support because of this. Do you think that will effect those involved or the corps?

When a uniform is put on whether in Drum Corps, working at McDonalds or a character at Disney World you are no longer looked at as an individual but part of what the uniform represents. That's just how our society views things. Unfair? Yes. But fact nonetheless.

[rayfallon]

Not quite sure why my post upset you so. I was merely trying to say that it is completely UNFAIR that an entire corps is being held responsible (in the public eye) or looked down upon because of the actions of a few. Whether we like it or not, or agree or not, that is what happens. I can promise you that as this subject comes up in future conversations, it will be referred to as "what the Cavies did in retreat in '08", or "what the Bluecoats did in retreat in '08" just as it is with other corps from other incidents in the past including The Boston Crusaders (or most any other corps for that matter). I feel bad for the members that now have to "live this down". I have read right here, on this discussion board, how some are thinking of pulling their financial support because of this. Do you think that will effect those involved or the corps?

When a uniform is put on whether in Drum Corps, working at McDonalds or a character at Disney World you are no longer looked at as an individual but part of what the uniform represents. That's just how our society views things. Unfair? Yes. But fact nonetheless.

It is possible that BAC mom, being a recent corps parent, is less aware of some of Boston's, how can we put it, "reputation?" Although I think that a lot of the more recent reputation was based more on appearances of attitude than actual pugnacity. Plus, it's sort of a two edged sword. There were years in which Boston survived on sheer attitude, their sort of us against the entire Universe mindset was the only thing that kept the corps alive. Finally, when the corps and its members really hailed from Boston, you had to be tough to tell the other guys on your block you were on the way to "Drum Corps" practice while they were heading out to hot wire a car and go for a ride up to Revere Beach!!! I do think that much of the tough guy persona just stayed attached to the uniforms in later years, and some of the more recent moms and dads may not know that Junior's corps may have once had the reputation of a street gang with bugles, and priests, and xylophones, and snare drums... you get the idea.

[NV82]

It is possible that BAC mom, being a recent corps parent, is less aware of some of Boston's, how can we put it, "reputation?" Although I think that a lot of the more recent reputation was based more on appearances of attitude than actual pugnacity. Plus, it's sort of a two edged sword. There were years in which Boston survived on sheer attitude, their sort of us against the entire Universe mindset was the only thing that kept the corps alive. Finally, when the corps and its members really hailed from Boston, you had to be tough to tell the other guys on your block you were on the way to "Drum Corps" practice while they were heading out to hot wire a car and go for a ride up to Revere Beach!!! I do think that much of the tough guy persona just stayed attached to the uniforms in later years, and some of the more recent moms and dads may not know that Junior's corps may have once had the reputation of a street gang with bugles, and priests, and xylophones, and snare drums... you get the idea.

No worries, they represented themselves well during the now infamous Retreat of 2008.

Great Year BAC!!!! Looking forward to 2009!

[Leland]

I really admire and respect your reply. I’m not an alumni but I’m not new to the activity. I’ve followed drum corps as a fan for the past 28 years. I do think you have a great point that as alumni it is in fact your activity and you ultimately have the task of ensuring that traditions continue. But the thing I admire most about this attitude is the understanding that the activity needs to be allowed to grow. And well, you all have kept me hooked through the years, so I’ll trust your judgment.

I may have read too quickly, so I didn't notice that you've been a fan for longer than I've been marching.

Still, there's a side to drum corps that the fans just don't quite get to see, not even from the "On The Road Again" interludes that were on the old PBS broadcasts. All those hours, from dawn 'til dawn, teaching each other that this is the way we do things, that corps has always been good friends with us, that other corps stinks and shouldn't be beating us, rookeez sit in front, never put water on the shelf, let the contras do their thing 'cuz it's their thing, how to fold your corps jacket before setting it down ANYWHERE...

It's so hard to explain that you just have to march it to understand it -- and you still won't be able to explain it. It's like throwing gypsies, hippies, symphony musicians, punk rockers, and a Marine platoon into a blender. Each corps has its own balance of that recipe. When the balance gets really out of whack, though -- that's when everyone else gets concerned.

[rut-roh]

everyone get over it. its done. not worth #####ing about anymore.

Yes, it's done. No, we don't have to get over it, because it is symptomatic of a larger issue that causes a great many of us concern. And it IS worth DISCUSSING. If you're not interested in reading it, there are plenty of other threads for you to read.