In light of the retreat discussion

[Bruckner8]

The one thing I learned while on the instructional side of the horn is that the kids will do anything you tell them to do, and they'll (probably) not do anything that you tell them to not do. They listen to the staff.

I agree 100%. But I might have put the word "probably" in bold italics, for more emphasis.

[megadrive]

I've seen this more than once with alumni corps members being disrespectful of the corps on the field. It's not just the current members who need some coaching as to proper behavior... the alums apparently need some reminders as well.

Cmon, generalizations are bad. I've sat next to rude Scouts, Cavies, BD, Cadets, etc. etc. and even rude PR fans/alumni. There is an ######## in every group.

[Jared_mello]

i just watched the 02 finals retreat.....america(/o' canada!) was actually really good, and very enjoyable for that reason. the corps also played god bless america (yes, TWO PIECES) and it also sounded really good. seeing that, its really weird to picture what the most recent retreats were like, comparatively.

then again, i think drum corps as an activity was drastically different in a lot of ways than it is now. oh well.

[Leland]

i just watched the 02 finals retreat.....america(/o' canada!) was actually really good, and very enjoyable for that reason. the corps also played god bless america (yes, TWO PIECES) and it also sounded really good. seeing that, its really weird to picture what the most recent retreats were like, comparatively.

then again, i think drum corps as an activity was drastically different in a lot of ways than it is now. oh well.

And that was just '02, too. They put the massed performance on the CDs in '95, and it was actually worth preserving, with no jack##### from the sops. It really was an amazing sound (certainly the LOUDEST noise I've ever seen), and they haven't reached that quality ever since.

[RLamb]

Below is a reply from DCI following my email to them concerning the retreat. I am confident it will be discussed. As upset as some of us (spectators) were, I would think that the members and staff of the non-offending corps would be even more upset. I don't anticipate or expect that those directors would express their thoughts in a public forum, but I can't imagine they will be quiet among their peers.

Dear Randall,

Thank you for your interest in Drum Corps International. My apologies that you were displeased with the retreat this year. We have received many concerned e-mails regarding this topic. They have all been passed along for consideration for next season. Thank you for taking the time to write to us.

Regards,

Elizabeth

[rut-roh]

Below is a reply from DCI following my email to them concerning the retreat. I am confident it will be discussed. As upset as some of us (spectators) were, I would think that the members and staff of the non-offending corps would be even more upset. I don't anticipate or expect that those directors would express their thoughts in a public forum, but I can't imagine they will be quiet among their peers.

The grapevine is stirring with accounts of many directors prepared to bring this up at the next DCI meeting as a topic of discussion. Where it goes from there, who knows? But I like hearing that we may be reaching a point where something MAY be done about it. Certainly, when one corps deliberately looks (or sounds) bad on retreat of the marquis event on the DCI calendar, it does reflect on ALL the corps.

[GuyW]

If this were another era, that Cavies kid would've lost some teeth.

...probably from brothers in green...

[Leland]

...probably from brothers in green...

True.

Although all that would have been needed would be for that Cadet to have a sudden nervous twitch.

[NV82]

WOW!! Lady you my dear are in LA LA land . It's called " Esprit de corps " military bearing , also HATE is a very

strong word , nobody hates these kids actually most of us love these kids I Know that I do ! These young men and women

are not full grown adults and they certainly showed it on finals night ! These attitudes and disrespectfulness are sure

signs of problems within the staff and upper management of each corps involved in disrespecting the thousands of fans

who payed BIG BUCKS to see them perform is not acceptable ! I believe that each corps director and staff should thats

involved in these allogations should step up to the plate and make a public apology to the drum corps community as a

whole for their respective corps behaviour ! Also best of luck to your son in the future ! Smitty

Well, I’ve never been accused of hanging out in LA LA land, but ok. I’ve always believed it’s best to face my faults head on, but I’m going to have to think about this one for awhile……

Excuse me while I take off my mom hat and put on my “Worlds Biggest Drum Corps Fan” hat.

So I Googled “Esprit de corps” (It’s not a term we use here in LA LA land). Dictionary.com returned this definition:

a sense of unity and of common interests and responsibilities, as developed among a group of persons closely associated in a task, cause, enterprise, etc.

So ok, I’m trying to follow your point. We are, all of us, united in the common interest of drum corps. Not just the “Esprit de corps” developed among the corps, but all of us as parents, alumni, fans and staff. We definitely share a multitude of common causes. But right now, we are addressing retreat behavior. How am I doing so far?

First let’s talk about the issue of hate. A poster (skevinp) earlier in this thread did an admirable job of explaining this for me so I’ll just use a quote. (I love people who are able to articulate so well!.... Thank you!)

In the spirit of discussing actual statements, I don't think she said anyone who merely questioned their actions is hating them intensely. If that is all you are doing, fine, she isn't accusing you of hating anyone. But other people have done a lot more than that.

Understanding that 'hate' is a concept with numerous interpretations in numerous contexts and nobody is using it in the holocaust sense here, much of that other thread was a hate-fest. Many of the posters used individual incidents to aim insulting and sometimes dehumanizing attacks at all the members of an entire organization in the case of the Cavaliers and several other corps. Call it hate, anger, obsession, or what you will, but the tone of many statements ranged from sanctimonious to vicious. That can't be easy for a mother to read, or anyone else who is personally affiliated with members they respect and know from experience are decent people.

I agree that we should not be too quick to assign motives and agendas when we can never know the hearts and minds of others (or even completely know our own) but some degree of interpretation is necessary to have any discussion. In my observation, there are people who use incidents like this as an excuse to attack other organizations while pretending to defend notions of class and respect even as they violate them themselves. Some of these people claim to care about the way the behaviors in question make DCI look, even as the continually broadcast and amplify the incidents and put the worst possible spin on them.

All people make mistakes and lapse into thoughtlessness at times, and this will be the case in EVERY corps and not just some, no matter how selectively people frame the issues or choose their moments to complain. I will continue to believe, however, that ALL of these organization are full of generally good people with good hearts and that compared to most kids their age, they have plenty of class and character.

Next, let’s talk about finals night. Please remember I’m wearing my “fan” hat. I am really stuck on this one. Yes, yes, I completely understand the disillusionment, disappointment and multitude if issues many of you have expressed. There is no argument many of your concerns are justifiable. Many of the things that happened were wrong including the playing of America the Beautiful. But with that said, there are some ideas that I’m having a difficult time agreeing with.

I don’t think it’s wrong to have fun during retreat. Ok, ok, crossing the line into another corps block and coming onto the field drunk are not alright, but are you saying that anything but standing at parade rest is disrespectful? There just doesn’t seem to be a clear sentiment of where “this is funny” ends and “this is wrong” begins. I want to watch the kids have fun during those last moments together as a corps. The emotions, pictures of the audience, tossing Jolly Ranchers…I feel like it’s their time to be who they are. The corps, staff and alumni are ultimately responsible for ensuring their vision of the persona their corps exudes is met.

I think the staff responsible for these corps are amazing. I can’t even begin to imagine how they maintain the discipline needed to travel all summer with 150 young people and put such incredible shows on the field. These people have written the book and set the bars so high they almost have no where to go but down. And so here we go, calling them out for their “disrespectfulness”. Really? Really? A couple of young adults took it too far (most likely on their age out night) and all of a sudden we are claiming lack of discipline! Let’s give them some time to figure out what went wrong and react as they see appropriate. Why is there such a lack of faith? I’m dazed at how fast some were to judge and assume everything would be swept under the rug.

So Smitty, after your admission to loving these kids , I can’t help but like you, but I hope you understand that I may not agree with all of your views. I’ll resist the urge to put my mom hat back on and go on about how terrific my son is. But I will say this, he sets the standards for everything I hope to one day be.

Edited August 19, 2008 by NV82

[kardrummer]

Hey Terri this is Alan Rice, good to see you out there still hanging around. I worked with bluecoats this summer

email me and I will give you a little insight on finals night.

Alan