idontwan2know Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 1) Size isn't everything. Yeah, yeah, that's what she said. 2) Phantom is looking for a sound. Not to have the most number of tuba players on the field. If they can achieve the sound they want with 12, why have 4 more? 3) The principle of diminishing returns begins to factor in more and more the larger and particular section gets. Tubas, especially. There's just a limited number of people out there who can physically handle the instrument, look halfway decent moving around the field and sound good while doing it. Crown's 16 tubas looked and sounded great, but how much extra time and effort was spent cleaning them and bringing them up to the standard they needed to be at vs. how much they added to the show? How much money was spent on those tubas? Could it have been used better elsewhere? Did they turn down relatively more talented members in other sections to make room for those tuba players? I'm not criticizing the choices they made, I'm simply pointing out the thought process that goes into it and how different corps can arrive at different solutions (or even the same corps from year to year) as to where to use their spots. 16 was the right choice for Crown, but for Phantom, 12 was the magic number. It's the Goldilocks Principle. 4) BD lost a couple members just prior to leaving for tour in 2000 and elected not to fill the holes. They also marched pea shooter Kanstul Bb tubas that year because the Dynasty horns they were supposed to pick up in Europe were not ready. A full line with full size horns would definitely have helped sell that show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ussglassman Posted January 10, 2009 Author Share Posted January 10, 2009 1) Size isn't everything. Yeah, yeah, that's what she said. 2) Phantom is looking for a sound. Not to have the most number of tuba players on the field. If they can achieve the sound they want with 12, why have 4 more? 3) The principle of diminishing returns begins to factor in more and more the larger and particular section gets. Tubas, especially. There's just a limited number of people out there who can physically handle the instrument, look halfway decent moving around the field and sound good while doing it. Crown's 16 tubas looked and sounded great, but how much extra time and effort was spent cleaning them and bringing them up to the standard they needed to be at vs. how much they added to the show? How much money was spent on those tubas? Could it have been used better elsewhere? Did they turn down relatively more talented members in other sections to make room for those tuba players? I'm not criticizing the choices they made, I'm simply pointing out the thought process that goes into it and how different corps can arrive at different solutions (or even the same corps from year to year) as to where to use their spots. 16 was the right choice for Crown, but for Phantom, 12 was the magic number. It's the Goldilocks Principle. 4) BD lost a couple members just prior to leaving for tour in 2000 and elected not to fill the holes. They also marched pea shooter Kanstul Bb tubas that year because the Dynasty horns they were supposed to pick up in Europe were not ready. A full line with full size horns would definitely have helped sell that show. And a good show it was! And now they're back to pea shooters again?!?!?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leadsop97 Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 There will always be great, small lines, and awful, big lines. In my mind, the best case scenario is great and big. However, the more players you have, the harder it becomes to clean and get to sound good. and SOUND IS EVERYTHING. that's why I am so impressed with Crown's tuba line. I'd still rather march 5 tubas that can blend and create a clear bass for the ensemble than 16 who struggle to match timbre/don't blend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Krackin' Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 While more players can mean more to clean and more exposure to individual errors, having a few more tubas allows the individual players to be able to stay a littlle further away from "the edge" and still be able to achive a strong sectional ff & fff. Most tuba lines don't sound very pretty when you turn the individual knobs all the way to "11". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
contramark Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 4) BD lost a couple members just prior to leaving for tour in 2000 and elected not to fill the holes. They also marched pea shooter Kanstul Bb tubas that year because the Dynasty horns they were supposed to pick up in Europe were not ready. A full line with full size horns would definitely have helped sell that show. no.... I just never showed up, and to this day I kick myself in the butt for not marching 2000 because of a girl. Then one of the members hurt her knee so she had to sit out the rest of the season. UssGlassmen.... I would like to know why you hate the big dynastys. I marched one, and loved the way it played. Now every drum corps I have taught has had the 4/4 dynastys... I cant stand them. I know for a fact "the line" hated them in 2008 also. Mark "The Line" 98, 99, 01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayfallon Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 They should bring it back as a tribute to Ray "Konga" Richardson. I LOVE that idea!!! There should definitely be a perpetual Konga memorial, either a trophy or a scholarship!!! You, sir are an out-of-the-box thinker. Konga would have approved of your thinking, although he probably would have demurred at the idea of a trophy named in his honor. Although, on second thought, he was not the MOST modest self-deprecating man in drum corps - but face it - he had a lot to be immodest about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penn State Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 no.... I just never showed up, and to this day I kick myself in the butt for not marching 2000 because of a girl. Then one of the members hurt her knee so she had to sit out the rest of the season.UssGlassmen.... I would like to know why you hate the big dynastys. I marched one, and loved the way it played. Now every drum corps I have taught has had the 4/4 dynastys... I cant stand them. I know for a fact "the line" hated them in 2008 also. Mark "The Line" 98, 99, 01 I am not a fan of the 4/4 Dynasty either and haven't been able to play a 5/4 Dynasty. Heck, imho, I feel the Yamaha 4/4 convertable tuba is a better playing horn than the Dynasty 4/4. Valve placement is uncomfortable though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayfallon Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 This has been one of the most reasoned, best expressed threads I've read on DCP. I always told my son Kevin that tubas/contras were the best people in music as they "get it." They understand that without what they bring to the table with few or no accolades, all the screaming in the world would simply be "sound and fury signifying nothing." As to the larger DEGs. I never liked them either - they played like a hybrid horn that never got the two parts in synch - the body was too small for the bell or the bell too big for the body. I thought they were not balanced as well as other horns I had played, and that some really important partials were tough to keep in tune - a bunch of you are going to jump in and tell me if I knew how to blow it would be in tune - save your time. I know of what I speak. All in all, they were close to the bottom of my list of marching tubae. (showing off my Latin minor, although I put it in subjective case and it should probably be objective first declension plural, but who on DCP would ever nit-pick stuff like that?) Anyway, you tubas rule. Keep raising the waterline of DCP discourse so that when you're averaged in with posts from snare drummers and lead sopranos, we'll still have brought up the level a bit. BTW - favorite all-time line may have been early 90s Star, okay maybe late '80s, but they rocked, plus my kid will absolutely kill me if I leave out BD from the late '90s... still like the sound of the Jets theme fading out in the basses as they played back field moving away from each other... nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 I like the big Dynastys all right, but the Kanstul 5/4 is my ultimate favorite. Awesome sound, great balance, and built like a tank. I will be wielding one this year on the field, and I'm very excited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchromik Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 (edited) I can't believe that no one has mentioned Crowns "Sweet 16" contra line for the strongest line in DCI's World Class!! VERY SWEET for sure!!! The Sweet Sixteen were indeed SWEET and balanced out that massive 80 man hornline. Easily the best presence and feel in DCI, but, the original Sweet Sixteen were in the 92' Star of Indiana line. And that was sixteen King K-90s, which is a different kind of thing all together. Not better, just different. That line was #### near un-defeated the entire year up until semis and are easily one of the most underrated lines (and books) in DCI history. They were the spiritual decendants of the original Dirty Dozen (85' Star) and Enormous Eighteen (86' Star). Edited January 22, 2009 by mchromik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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