A note on showmanship.

[system_roxr]

Since when does Phantom do any of that?

Do you even know what Drum Corps is?

That kinda WHAT Phantom does.

Just putting that out there.

[Jared_mello]

phantom is certainly not the hornline typically associated with "playing in tune," just saying. i've liked their brasslines lately but as at least one example, i re-watched phantom '03 recently for the first time in a while and was shocked by how much control was sacrificed in the name of "emotional brass performance."

why would someone whos never marched a step of drum corps in his life ask someone with like 5 years of experience if he knows what drum corps is? what a joke.

[Cop]

I mean, how many times can you get excited about the same person being killed?

Every thime I see Madison Scouts 1997 Pirates

Every Time I see Sky Ryders 1987

Every Time Bridgemen Kill Tony in 1981

Every Time I see Phantom 1981 when they lift the body and lay the shield~

Bluecoats even made me cry when the folded American flag was handed over.......

Edited August 31, 2008 by Cop

[Zeke]

BTW, once you get the CD's have a little closer listen to BD and their "performance and execution". I have a feeling you might have a different story. There a reason they came in 4th all season in ensemble...

I think I heard about 6 fracks from the hornline on finals night.

[liebot]

Do you even know what Drum Corps is?

That kinda WHAT Phantom does.

Just putting that out there.

I'll give you the extended range part of the statement, but there are hornlines that play much more in tune and with much better blend than Phantom.

And yeah, like Jared said, I've marched five years of drum corps. I kinda know what it is by this point in my life.

Edited August 31, 2008 by TSRTS13

[silvertrombone]

OK, I'll admit it. I was completely prepared to hate Phantom's show. So much so, that I missed them during quarters on purpose. At semi's I was just about to leave the stadium during their show and decided I had better stop being judgmental and give it a try.

Why was I expecting to hate it? I've never been a big fan of them. Never hated them, disliked them etc. Just never a fan. Maybe it was something from the 70's. Some perceived slight that I can't remember in my feeble old age. Maybe I hated their unis in the 70s. Maybe some boy didn't smile at me 30 years ago. Who knows.

Anyway, I decided to just sit there, listen to the music and read my program. When they came on the field I glanced up a couple of times to check things out and went back to what I was doing, but I kept having to look up more and more. By the time they hit that first note, I had put down the program.

I'm ashamed to admit it, but by the time they were done with the semi's performance I was on my feet screaming at every kill and yelling I AM SPARTACUS at the top of my lungs. I couldn't believe it myself.

What sold me on the show? The members. It was obvious they weren't just playing a show. They were enjoying what they were doing and putting on one of the best performances of their lives. That's what made it exciting for me.

Come finals night I didn't think they would be as exciting to watch. I mean, how many times can you get excited about the same person being killed? I got so sucked into that finals show you would have thought I had never seen it before and was a rabid Phantom Phan. The only corps I cheered louder for that night was my own.

SO, I just wanted to say thanks to the members of Phantom for their showmanship. That, to me, is what won it for me. Knowing that your whole corps was enjoying it, laying it all out on the field and giving it everything and believing that that show was the absolute best there was. You should be proud of yourselves.

I'll never walk out on a Phantom performance again.

For the record, we don't smile.

Note the smiley face...I'm not being a jerk. And I'm not jumping on OP, so don't take it that way. But that being said, there are a lot of people from your generation that need to have an epiphany moment like you experienced this year. I know the 70's were...different...than they are today in this activity. The whole "fight behind the buses after retreat" thing and all that is gone. I see absolutely no reason for people to bear the kind of grudges, etc against other corps.

I can understand the kind of animosity towards George Hopkins, and to an extent, even Cadets since they are the vehicle by which an unpopular agenda is being driven. This situation is different.

The kind of Phantom-Cavaliers animosity that OP mentions is just...silly. The kind of hatred between these two corps should be buried just as OP's was towards PR from the 70's, or whatever it was.

Think of how many memories OP has missed leaving PR's performances over the years!! BTW, I strongly recommend 89, 91, 93, 94 (my year!), 95, 97, 03, and 05-07.

PR has arguably been one of the more exciting corps, consistently, year in and year out. To not be a "Phan" (proper spelling) all those years saddens my heart--what a waste of perfectly good amazingness!

There has been a lot of this crap over the years (not directed at OP, but a general observation). The best embodiment of the observation has to be the Star years, especially 90-93/4. The DCI establishment, especially fans--and unfortunately, PR and Cavies fans were among the worst from what I understand--were just ugly to Star over the years. This despite the fact that, had DCI and individual DC's adopted some of the SOP's that Star introduced, perhaps we would be enjoying an activity in a little bit better condition financially, etc.

The line of thinking that Star's founders and staff deployed was just...innovative, using a favorite DCI term. And it would have been a great thing for DCI to recognize the opportunities that Star represented rather than the threat to the "championship" corps' placements. DCI has only in recent years begun to make use of some of the new tools at its disposal...see also this years' addition of the Fan Network and Internet resources of late.

It is the type of bias and "hatred" in the old school that was just part of the fabric of the "neighborhood" mentality in the 70's that we are having to shed in order to experience progress and actually GROW the activity. You know, that "my 'hood/your 'hood" mentality that causes Northern Illinois' corps to hate each other historically. WTF?? I mean, BD and SCV have always experienced a rivalry, but it has been one that has spurred each other on to greatness.

Hats off to OP!! Or helmets, I guess I should say. I took a long break from the activity from 98 to 03 and upon returning began shedding such petty biases also. The result has been that I am a greater fan of the activity, not just of Phantom Regiment. I am also able to recognize that "my" corps isn't all that in its historical operations, an observation that doesn't go over so well each time that I repeat it.

Call a spade a spade, and recognize that our activity needs to adopt a best practices mentality. Enjoy the on-the-field product for what it is...a bunch of kids doing what they are passionate about and good at...just like we were in 1976...1992...etc. And jump in and help strengthen corps like Blue Stars and others so that we can reverse the rather pathetic trend of the last 35 years. Believe it or not, there is a great deal of opportunity for this activity.

Sorry, OP--I still can't tell you what SUTA means!

[Vito]

I am sorry, I found Phantom's show over the top. I don't hate Phantom or any other corps. I just think we could do with a little less theater and a little more drum corps.

[ScarletKnight]

A couple of observations:

1. If you're going to be critical of tone, playing in tune, etc., give some specific examples (and put your own credentials out there, while you're at it).

2. The comments about appreciating the value of other's work was well stated.

3. As a PR alum, I didn't hate Star - when they won, I was glad a group from the midwest got a title, instead of one of the coastal teams. Not that I had anything against any of them either - - it's just good for the activity.

4. As far at the DM assassination thing is concerned, there is a line that separates a gimmick from theatrics. I don't know where that line is, though, and I suppose it is a matter of interpretation.

[neholgate]

Every thime I see Madison Scouts 1997 Pirates

Every Time I see Sky Ryders 1987

Every Time Bridgemen Kill Tony in 1981

Every Time I see Phantom 1981 when they lift the body and lay the shield~

Bluecoats even made me cry when the folded American flag was handed over.......

How about every time the shark ate the fat lady who sang?

[liebot]

A couple of observations:

1. If you're going to be critical of tone, playing in tune, etc., give some specific examples (and put your own credentials out there, while you're at it).

Opening hit of PR 03 - third trumpets (could be mellos, hard to tell) playing out of tune and with bad tone.

End of PR 06 - bad breathing and unfinished phrases all over the place which leads to some bad stick outs and exposes some less-than-ideal tone.

My credentials? I've marched for awhile, and I've seen plenty of hornlines. You don't need a Masters in music to be able to tell what hornlines play well and which ones don't.