Marching snare tilt.

[RevPit08]

I recently decided to experiment with tilting my high school's snares. Does anyone have any tips, warnings, or other help for tilted snares? I've never tried it before, but I like the look and playability that comes with it. Thanks for any help.

[jonnyboy]

Hang a snare with a sling and try to mimic the angle. Down from left to right and slightly lower in front, like the Blue Knights. OR Just make a nice natural angle, easiest way for your kids to play.

[TastyWaves]

I recently decided to experiment with tilting my high school's snares. Does anyone have any tips, warnings, or other help for tilted snares? I've never tried it before, but I like the look and playability that comes with it. Thanks for any help.

Dont let your players give in to the urge to "Elevate" the left hand. Alot of people try that right off the bat.

Dont let thier hands come any higher than the sticks in position.

also make sure the drums are all perfectly level prior to applying the tilt. having a bunch of different drum angles kills the aesthetic behind it.

good luck!

T

[Jim Nevermann]

I maintain that the only advantage [such as it may be] to carrier-tilted snares is that you can somewhat more easily do left stick/rim shots and, conversely, do them somewhat less easily with the right stick. But nothing else.

Having started drum corps on snare with slings and leg rests in 1965, adding Ludwig’s “Angle Reduction Bar” in 1968, and eventually switching to carriers, to me the carrier-tilted head trend is nothing more than a visual effect. Tilted snares look slightly different than non-tilted snares. That's all.

See, at the center of the head where we play 99% of the time, the effect of the carrier-tilted drum head's angle [10-15 degrees, I’ll guess] on the “vertical difference” where our stick tips contact the head, is essentially non-existent. And even when we play at or near the rim, the head angle still doesn't change, and thus doesn't affect that vertical difference. So there's no demonstrable physical/playing advantage to carrier-tilted snares.

In this same [though much more lengthy] discussion here awhile back, someone stated that "Human anatomy and physiology demand it." Not so. The difference between how a carrier-held drum [tilted or not] affects the positions of the arms and hands, is all but insignificant.

Except that the left hand [and left forearm, pivotally from its elbow] is raised a scant few inches, and the right hand/forearm combo lowered by the same amount, there’s otherwise no appreciable difference in the physiological/anatomical movements, stresses, or any so-called "advantageous range of motion" [my phrase] between the tilted/non-tilted head and the hands/arms, to speak of. And all that in just one sentence, too!

Carrier-tilted snares are strictly a visual effect.

Edited September 11, 2008 by Jim Nevermann

[TastyWaves]

I maintain that the only advantage [such as it may be] to carrier-tilted snares is that you can somewhat more easily do left stick/rim shots and, conversely, do them somewhat less easily with the right stick. But nothing else.

Having started drum corps on snare with slings and leg rests in 1965, adding Ludwig’s “Angle Reduction Bar” in 1968, and eventually switching to carriers, to me the carrier-tilted head trend is nothing more than a visual effect. Tilted snares look slightly different than non-tilted snares. That's all.

See, at the center of the head where we play 99% of the time, the effect of the carrier-tilted drum head's angle [10-15 degrees, I’ll guess] on the “vertical difference” where our stick tips contact the head, is essentially non-existent. And even when we play at or near the rim, the head angle still doesn't change, and thus doesn't affect that vertical difference. So there's no demonstrable physical/playing advantage to carrier-tilted snares.

In this same [though much more lengthy] discussion here awhile back, someone stated that "Human anatomy and physiology demand it." Not so. The difference between how a carrier-held drum [tilted or not] affects the positions of the arms and hands, is all but insignificant.

Except that the left hand [and left forearm, pivotally from its elbow] is raised a scant few inches, and the right hand/forearm combo lowered by the same amount, there’s otherwise no appreciable difference in the physiological/anatomical movements, stresses, or any so-called "advantageous range of motion" [my phrase] between the tilted/non-tilted head and the hands/arms, to speak of. And all that in just one sentence, too!

Carrier-tilted snares are strictly a visual effect.

Yeah,

this debate will go on and on and on.

I only use the tilt sometimes for aesthetic purposes.

I personally enjoy playing on a tilt as well but it sure as heck isnt responsible for if i play good or bad.

[sday88]

I maintain that the only advantage [such as it may be] to carrier-tilted snares is that you can somewhat more easily do left stick/rim shots and, conversely, do them somewhat less easily with the right stick. But nothing else.

Having started drum corps on snare with slings and leg rests in 1965, adding Ludwig’s “Angle Reduction Bar” in 1968, and eventually switching to carriers, to me the carrier-tilted head trend is nothing more than a visual effect. Tilted snares look slightly different than non-tilted snares. That's all.

See, at the center of the head where we play 99% of the time, the effect of the carrier-tilted drum head's angle [10-15 degrees, I’ll guess] on the “vertical difference” where our stick tips contact the head, is essentially non-existent. And even when we play at or near the rim, the head angle still doesn't change, and thus doesn't affect that vertical difference. So there's no demonstrable physical/playing advantage to carrier-tilted snares.

In this same [though much more lengthy] discussion here awhile back, someone stated that "Human anatomy and physiology demand it." Not so. The difference between how a carrier-held drum [tilted or not] affects the positions of the arms and hands, is all but insignificant.

Except that the left hand [and left forearm, pivotally from its elbow] is raised a scant few inches, and the right hand/forearm combo lowered by the same amount, there’s otherwise no appreciable difference in the physiological/anatomical movements, stresses, or any so-called "advantageous range of motion" [my phrase] between the tilted/non-tilted head and the hands/arms, to speak of. And all that in just one sentence, too!

Carrier-tilted snares are strictly a visual effect.

I agree with this 100%. The stick motion is in an arc so it doesn't matter if the snare is tilted or not. As a matter of fact, with the snare tilted, the right hand is actually playing MORE incorrect than the poeple who like the tilt say the left hand is when the drum is flat. The tilt is simply wrong, nothing more.

[jonnyboy]

How can you say the tilt is wrong or that there is no difference? If the very first drums were attached to human bodies flat via carrier, as opposed to a sling, the traditional grip would have never developed! Could you imagine someone handing a tenor player sticks and saying "hold the left one like this"?

The very reason snare players hold the left stick the way they do is because of the pronounced tilt in the drum when running a strap over the shoulder. Holding the left stick matched and reaching over the rim with the left elbow high in the air was so unnatural that drummers developed the really unnatural "traditional" way of holding the left stick to hit the drum. As drums leveled out the traditional grip stayed, and when drums went flat with carriers most lines stayed traditional because that is how they learned to play. Some lines used matched grip, and often got criticized because it "didn't look right".

In my personal view a carrier held tilted drum does look better, but it is also more natural to play traditional on a tilted drum.

[TastyWaves]

How can you say the tilt is wrong or that there is no difference? If the very first drums were attached to human bodies flat via carrier, as opposed to a sling, the traditional grip would have never developed! Could you imagine someone handing a tenor player sticks and saying "hold the left one like this"?

The very reason snare players hold the left stick the way they do is because of the pronounced tilt in the drum when running a strap over the shoulder. Holding the left stick matched and reaching over the rim with the left elbow high in the air was so unnatural that drummers developed the really unnatural "traditional" way of holding the left stick to hit the drum. As drums leveled out the traditional grip stayed, and when drums went flat with carriers most lines stayed traditional because that is how they learned to play. Some lines used matched grip, and often got criticized because it "didn't look right".

In my personal view a carrier held tilted drum does look better, but it is also more natural to play traditional on a tilted drum.

I am mostly in agreement.

although there is heated debate over it because folks like Mr Day up above (who is just as entitled to his opinion) States his view, and then closes the discussion.lol Frankly i dont know why the topic bears any kind of "heated" argument but it always does.

I only know whats comfortable for me, and what i enjoy looking at.

I do remember some experience as a member of the US Marine Drum and bugle corps. We played contemporary as well as classic drum corps literature and have a significant # of performances each year on sling drums.

Again, i wont talk physics and mechanics, but i do know that we warmed up on normal flat snare stands, then when we strapped up, the sound cleaned up ALOT and our left hand sound suddenly had more presence.

Could be coincidence, but who knows.

I just think it looks great for certain lines.

[drumkid]

let's pretend we're playing matched for a sec.

to define our playing position w/o teching wrist/finger (ie: german, american, tri-point fulcrum etc) do the following:

1) drop your hands to your side

2) bend at the elbow (without flaring the elbows) to raise your hands to playing level.

for snare (tradish) add

3) turn your left hand over.

now, with your hands level and with one stick "on top of" the left hand and one "below" the right hand you've created tilt. compare fulcra: the left is above the the right.

boom, done. (KISS method)

"visually" it comes down to this:

~ symmetric drum/asymmetric body (flat drum)

~ symmetric body/asymmetric drum (tilt). completely symmetric body? not quite, but...

i say visually in quotes because there is certainly more to be said about a body that approaches symmetry than appearance; hence the opening demonstration.

tilting the drum also allows for a more accessible Moeller stroke on the left (less constricted elbow).

to suggest the right hand is now incorrect tells me all the drums on your kit are flat. no?

the adjustment of the right hand is what gets overlooked most often. the stroke needs to be adjusted to be in line with the rebound vector; which is merely a fun way of saying "play perpendicular to the head". this does fight -9.8 m/s^2 slightly.

the "vertical difference" explanation does show that there is no relative difference when you take a snapshot at the point of contact, however the operating difference is huge. "vd" (lol... sorry Jim) accounts for the sticks at head level but does not account for full extension. naturally the right hand can extend farther than the left thereby creating inequity. how do we solve this? easy: rotate the drum to match the angle set by the hands. or keep the drum the same and keep stretching those tendons!

tilting is all about ergonomics.

seriously, i tech lines both ways: it just depends on what kind of students i have and what kind of book i am writing.

tilting or not has a massive impact.

[sday88]

How can you say the tilt is wrong or that there is no difference? If the very first drums were attached to human bodies flat via carrier, as opposed to a sling, the traditional grip would have never developed! Could you imagine someone handing a tenor player sticks and saying "hold the left one like this"?

The very reason snare players hold the left stick the way they do is because of the pronounced tilt in the drum when running a strap over the shoulder. Holding the left stick matched and reaching over the rim with the left elbow high in the air was so unnatural that drummers developed the really unnatural "traditional" way of holding the left stick to hit the drum. As drums leveled out the traditional grip stayed, and when drums went flat with carriers most lines stayed traditional because that is how they learned to play. Some lines used matched grip, and often got criticized because it "didn't look right".

In my personal view a carrier held tilted drum does look better, but it is also more natural to play traditional on a tilted drum.

I'm not too sure I disagree with this. But...

There are actually two scenarios when looking at the tilt "argument":

1) The drum is tilted already.

I completely agree that if the drum is already tilted, then the left hand should be held with traditional grip. And like you said, that is the reason it was developed because of the way the drum hung when using a strap. But this creates the right being wrong (see below).

2) The drum starts out flat.

This is where people tend to lose focus. Like you said above, if the drum was never tilted, the traditional grip would not had to have been developed. What I am saying is that with traditional grip the motion of the left stick is in an arc. You could very well tilt the drum UP on the right side and still get the same "stick hitting drum" motion that you do with the actual tilt. The only thing is in this case the stick would hit the drum "earlier" or "higher" in the motion. So the left stick rotates in an arc motion and then hits the drum. It's the same arc motion no matter how or if the drum is tilted. But the problem now comes with the right hand. With a flat drum, the stick (if looking at it from the front) rotates in an arc straight up and down. But now if you tilt the drum, the right hand has to rotate in an arc slightly on an angle (or hit the drum at an angle which is also wrong). That's where it becomes wrong. The left hand is always going to be arcing straight up and down, but with the drum tilt, the right hand now arcs on an angle, which is wrong. You could actually tilt the drum completely sideways and the left hand would still hit the drum properly but at a much lower point in its arc. But then you'd be playing the right hand horizontally like a bass drum.