Stick Grip

[sday88]

So, I was able to watch the Weckl videos, and try out the technique afterward. I have to admit, I'm sold. I also watched some other videos focusing on the Moeller method, one by Jim Chapin (this guy is amazing) and one by some guy sitting behind a drumset (the video was called something like "Cool Moeller exercises"). Those guys could fly! After just a couple of hours messing around with the middle finger fulcrum (MFF), I really like it. I need a lot of work on it, but I like it.

Here's my observations so far:

1) It seems that my middle finger is actually doing most of the movement of the stick. The tip of the finger is pushing the stick down.

2) I feel really out of control using the loose MFF grip. It feels like the sticks will fly out of my hands at any moment.

3) I commented above on how Brent from the Blue Stars was letting his pinkies fly. Well, so were mine. Maybe that's common. (?)

4) Moeller method: Seems like "monkey arm" playing to me. Those guys in the videos could fly though. I was having a hard time with it. Need more practice.

Overall, I really like the MFF grip and just need some practice. I think all the things I listed above will improve with time. Thanks for all the information. Nice to learn something new. Maybe if drumkid would have been a little more patient and gave me some of the information Adam, 08Hawkeye, and some others provided, I may have been on board earlier.

[08Hawkeye]

So, I was able to watch the Weckl videos, and try out the technique afterward. I have to admit, I'm sold. I also watched some other videos focusing on the Moeller method, one by Jim Chapin (this guy is amazing) and one by some guy sitting behind a drumset (the video was called something like "Cool Moeller exercises"). Those guys could fly! After just a couple of hours messing around with the middle finger fulcrum (MFF), I really like it. I need a lot of work on it, but I like it.

Here's my observations so far:

1) It seems that my middle finger is actually doing most of the movement of the stick. The tip of the finger is pushing the stick down.

2) I feel really out of control using the loose MFF grip. It feels like the sticks will fly out of my hands at any moment.

3) I commented above on how Brent from the Blue Stars was letting his pinkies fly. Well, so were mine. Maybe that's common. (?)

4) Moeller method: Seems like "monkey arm" playing to me. Those guys in the videos could fly though. I was having a hard time with it. Need more practice.

Overall, I really like the MFF grip and just need some practice. I think all the things I listed above will improve with time. Thanks for all the information. Nice to learn something new. Maybe if drumkid would have been a little more patient and gave me some of the information Adam, 08Hawkeye, and some others provided, I may have been on board earlier.

Responses:

1) yep. takes a lot more attention to control to use the "little" muscles to control the the stick, instead of the fulcrum pressure/squeezing many are accumstomed to.

2) dito - hence why I had mentioned sometimes I find myself giving in to the urge and using different grips for different musical passages... I need work as well. This was actually one of the things that ASTOUNDED me watching brent play.. how he can produce such sound with seemingly ssuch a loose grip. amazing.

3) I think the pinkies are a mental thing. tell yourself to tuck them away. dont practice bad habits. no ones perfect... but you can get pretty close with practice :)

4) I only use moeller in a few drumming contexts.. but that is truly an entirely different thread. maybe if i get some time ill even start it :).

Its awesome to see the adoption/acceptance of new percussive elements into one's repetoire. Becoming versed in different techniques, philosophies, implementations and learning styles can ONLY make you better and more knowledgable. This is just another gun in the arsenal. Keep practicing sir, and now when confronted with discussion on this technique you can add your two cent on what seems to work in what situations, and put it to use where appropriate. happy drumming.

sw

Edited October 28, 2008 by 08Hawkeye

[08Hawkeye]

bump for post 100

[Slow Adam]

Hey Scott,

Did you watch any other videos of Weckl? He is phenomenal. There is one clip of him doing a samba solo accompanied by electric keyboard and guitars, and it is ridiculous how much speed and fullness of sound he gets with seemingly minimal effort.

[sday88]

Hey Scott,

Did you watch any other videos of Weckl? He is phenomenal. There is one clip of him doing a samba solo accompanied by electric keyboard and guitars, and it is ridiculous how much speed and fullness of sound he gets with seemingly minimal effort.

No, I just watched the two that were linked earlier. I did see that there were a lot of others. I'll try and check them out.

Thanks guys.

[DanjrusMcRynky]

http://tapspace.com/SCVAudition.html

If you're willing, buy the SCV packet (or wait for the full video to come out, whenever that is). Murray explains the way they use the technique. Also many of the exercises in the packet will help you with becoming comfortable with the technique.

[K-Swiss]

I watched the Weckl vids, and after i tried the technique as he described it, I realized that's how i've been playing bass drum all year!

[TAFL]

No, I just watched the two that were linked earlier. I did see that there were a lot of others. I'll try and check them out.

Thanks guys.

That thing he was doing letting the stick bounce to show how loose the grip is matches what I've always done with a forefinger grip, so I'm guessing that's independent of the grip. After watching the videos, though, I paid more attention to how I play, and I find that I grip loosely with my forefinger and thumb and use the middle fingers (I play matched) as the main point of control for the stick. I wouldn't go so far as to say I use it as the primary fulcrum, just that it's more important to the stick motion than the forefinger. It appears that my grip is as close to the Moeller as it is to the tight squeeze grip--I can pull my forefingers off and keep on playing without much problem.

Interesting. I still won't do any monkey-arm strokes, though. I have no interest in looking like a wind-up toy.

[Slow Adam]

The monkey arm stuff those guys do is an exaggeration of the Moeller stroke. Watch Weckl's hands when he speeds up the one handed triplets...it's a pretty impressive technique.

[sday88]

That thing he was doing letting the stick bounce to show how loose the grip is matches what I've always done with a forefinger grip, so I'm guessing that's independent of the grip. After watching the videos, though, I paid more attention to how I play, and I find that I grip loosely with my forefinger and thumb and use the middle fingers (I play matched) as the main point of control for the stick. I wouldn't go so far as to say I use it as the primary fulcrum, just that it's more important to the stick motion than the forefinger. It appears that my grip is as close to the Moeller as it is to the tight squeeze grip--I can pull my forefingers off and keep on playing without much problem.

That's actually EXACTLY what I discovered when I paid attention after watching the videos and trying the MFF grip. I'm all about back finger control, always have been. The only thing I really noticed that was different was that with the MFF I was much more relaxed and things seemed to flow a little better.