Winter Brass Lines

[Orpheus]

High schools shouldnt start these organizations, but with independent organizations, kids can do both easily.

only a few of the absolute elite Division I corps pull anything but a majority of high school students.

who are you suggesting should do this?

What age-range makes up the majority of independent (non-school related) indoor winter guards and drumlines?

[ScribeToo]

What age-range makes up the majority of independent (non-school related) indoor winter guards and drumlines?

I'm guessing the majority of the indoor drumlines have high school aged kids in them. I don't think kids outside of drum corps are missing anything.

...and another thing.. in my experience, the winterguard participants are a different breed entirely. Many of them, once they're in it, stay in it well past their age out years for drum corps.. and they generally don't exhibit burnout.. just because doing one helps keep their chops up for the other and vice versa.

The indoor drumlines.. I don't know how many actual drum corps have them. I know Blue Knights had one for a long time. I thought Revolution had one.. but I don't think it's happening as part of the main stream drum corps community. The lines out there are independent entities..

It sounds like this guy is suggesting that drum corps should start these programs. IMO, drum corps have enough on their plates and the off season (winter season) is a time to set the line and learn the music and drill before your season begins. He seemed to think that the brass lines are sitting idly around.. and I'm sorry but even in the smallest division III corps I've worked with, NOTHING was sitting idly by in the off season.

Stef

[OPEC]

Not every brass kid in the corps has to be in the winter brass line, and vice versa.

[ScribeToo]

Not every brass kid in the corps has to be in the winter brass line, and vice versa.

No corps in their right mind is going to hold a spot open for a kid who's off doing "Winter Hornline." It's entirely different for colorguard for a lot of reasons I just don't want to go into right now.

Most corps that would have the financial ability to support yet another performing group have HUNDREDS of kids trying out for spots in their line. To take someone out of the line and have them do Winter Hornline doesn't make any sense when the rest of the hornline is learning the book and drill for that year. The kid coming back from winter hornline would be a whole half season behind.

So if you're the corps director do you:

a ) hold the spot open for a kid who will come in late and slow his entire section down? or

b ) give a spot to any one of the 50 or so other kids who auditioned and were good enough to make it past second cuts who will be there for all the off season camps and rehearsals and stay up to speed with the rest of the line?

My money is on b ).

Stefanie

[brassguymike]

I would never want my brass players to be marching year round because they would end up losing a vital quality in their playing called musicianship. Marching band and drum corps are not the places where kids learn to be musicians, it's in the classroom and on the stage. Concert band gives the student time to focus only on playing.

I disagree. Anytime a kid has a horn on his face and you're there to teach, I see this as nothing but a positive.

I completely understand the benefits of concert music in the educational process, but a winter brass line should augment what you are teaching in class during the day.

What I teach my students on the field, in the band hall, and on the stage all go hand in hand. If you aren't teaching musicianship on the field or in the arc, then your students are missing a vital quality in their education. I agree that in corps or marching band, the simoultaneous responsibilities we demand of our performers sometimes lets either the marching or the playing slide. But during sectionals, you should have time devoted to playing only. Beyond that you have to teach your students how to march and play like they are sitting on a stage.

At my school last year the kids asked to put together a Blast type stage show. It gave our brass players a great chance to put a horn on their face and be educated even more than time allows during school. Even if you are not working on your concert band music, it's still a chance to share your knowledge with your students. We would have done it again this year, but we were all burned-out from all the time we spent preparing for our Midwest clinic performance.

What harm would rehearsing a winter brass ensemble have? Does a kid taking private lessons and practicing something other than your concert band music cause any harm?

[brassguymike]

It's entirely different for colorguard for a lot of reasons I just don't want to go into right now.

What reasons? I'd love to hear your opinion.

Most corps that would have the financial ability to support yet another performing group have HUNDREDS of kids trying out for spots in their line. 

First of all I don't know of any corps that literally has hundreds of auditionees. Even if there was such a corps, there's a big difference between hundreds of auditionees and hundreds of quality auditionees. Every corps gets tons of auditionees who need more work before they can pass the audition. If every corps received hundreds of quality auditionees every winter, you would never see any top 12 or even any top 5 corps looking for members to fill holes during the winter and early summer season.

I could see a problem if at a given corps, every brass player was busy every weekend with their winter hornline and could not make any winter camps. It would be hard to work on uniform tone production and getting everyone on the same page. Plus the arrangers and show designers would not have the opportunity to hear/see the show develop and make the consequential adjustments.

But even if the winter hornline idea caught on, I highly doubt that we would have a majority of our members participating. We have winter drumlines and you don't see all of our percussionists missing camps. Why would it be different for brass?

The kid coming back from winter hornline would be a whole half season behind.

What's a whole half? Is there a partial half? Isn't that like a quarter or third or two-fifths? Sorry, couldn't resist. I'm a smart ### sometimes.

Back to your quote...

Not necessarily. If the student has been receiving a quality educational experience and has a good work ethic, then he should be able to jump right in and catch up quickly. Your argument follows the many band directors who think that their students marching corps will hurt their band cause the student will be missing part of summer band camp.

Here's a different situation for you as a hypothetical corps director. Do you:

a) hold a spot for a college student who is busy almost every weekend with their various college ensembles and other college commitments. or

B) give the spot to a high school student who makes every camp cause he has no other commitments to keep him from attending.

[ffernbus3]

A perfect example of "off-season" brass playing was the old Santa Clara Vanguard winter concerts. Different musical requirements than were called for during the field comp season. That's where other kinds of brass music got played, at the sit-down concerts, in places like the Mission Santa Clara.

And that's also the places where the "young turks" got to get their charts played. I still owe the late Gail Royer a large debt for him letting my arrangement of Bartolino's "Canzon a 30" get a public debut at a SCV winter concert. Gail even conducted it......and I, in the audience, got to stand up and take a bow....sweet!

Thanks, Gail, Wayne Downey, who also had his arrangement of "Wm. Byrd Suite" on the program.....and thanks to the 72 SCV hornline. I was both humbled and honored, and yes...educated by the experience.

But Winter Brass as a competitive event? Sure, why not?

RON HOUSLEY

Edited April 14, 2003 by ffernbus3

[pitn0926]

Um...dude...I don't know what you learned when you marched, but musicianship is pretty high up on the totem pole of "important things to be concerned with while performing" at my corps.

I think maybe you're confusing the issue. I'm not saying corps teaches you to be a poor musician. There are many incredible aspects of being in a corps and having good musicians is essential to the success of every corps. My point is that practicing an 11 minute show for however many months will probably make you a better player, but not a better musician. If you don't understand the difference, you must not be in a very good concert program. Most, if not all, of the top BOA bands don't just happen to have incredible concert programs, they understand the impact the concert season has on the marching season. If your only focus is marching (corps or band), you've severly limited your musical experience.

[FrankBeMe]

Man have things changed....

I remember doing small corps contests in February and March, full corps standstill contests in April....first field show the second week of May...

Why is 2003 any different? Why can't these be brought back? I'm coming up on the 34th anniversary of my first contest---which was April 26, 1969! FULL CORPS....even had the guard standing behind us.

Madison use to have a whole festival--small corps contest, color guard contest, I & E contest..that lasted for two days during the winter...that eventually evolved into the open house that they've had every year up to this year.

We did three small corps contests during the winter of 1972. Won the last one! It didn't take anything away from preparing for the summer.

Small corps and full corps standstill contests were HUGE back in the day. Yeah, it would probably be more difficult since just about everyone is non-local and comes in only once a month. Week night rehearsals during the winter are no more. Oh well.

[Dave]

First you said:

I think maybe you're confusing the issue.  I'm not saying corps teaches you to be a poor musician.

Then you said:

My point is that practicing an 11 minute show for however many months will probably make you a better player, but not a better musician.

So which is it? Either it makes you a better musician, or it doesn't, and if it's not teaching you to be a better musician, I would argue that it's not meeting its purpose. My only focus is hardly marching--as a music major, I spend the vast majority of the year in pursuits other than marching. But marching is and should be treated as a musical pursuit as legitimate as concert playing; students shouldn't be taught that it's not as legitimate to be musical when marching as it is inside. If you can play well moving, you can play well sitting down, and you can't be considered a good musician, musical or not, if you can't play your instrument well.