chaos001 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 i said i was checking on it! give a guy a minute to edit himself! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rifuarian Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 (edited) i said i was checking on it! give a guy a minute to edit himself! Give a guy chance to boost his low post count! +1! Gotta earn my second square . . . four years as a rookie is too long! Edited January 16, 2009 by Rifuarian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peel Paint Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I'd hate to see BOA go. Though I'm usually bored stiff at their competitions (wouldn't go if my little sis didn't participate), the performances aren't really as "artsy-fartsy" as a lot of people on here make them out to be. At 2007 GN finals I can only recall a few bands with elaborate props and narration, while some other bands -- like Avon and PCEP -- were positively drum corps-ish. The comps are a great experience for all the kids involved. They allow them to compete against bands that wouldn't normally see, and get quality feedback from (usually) quality judges in a more positive environment than most local competitions. And it's not really that expensive, unless you're bucking for a championship, and only a handful of bands participate with expectations of winning. What many people don't notice at BOA are the small, poorer schools that show up year after year, not because they want to win but because they think the experience is worth the money it costs. And I challenge anyone to provide evidence that participating in BOA has been so expensive that it destroys a program.BOA, like DCI, certainly has its share of problems. They've overextended. I think they should retreat back to the midwest/upper-south core where BOA had its start. They need to forget about the pro stadiums, except for Lucas Oil, and hold competitions in college and large high school stadiums. The score sheets are weighted too far towards effect for my taste, but our beloved drum corps isn't blameless there. And the upper echelons are dominated by gigantic, wealthy suburban schools who can afford to hire top DCI and WGI designers, arrangers, and instructors. I did a bit of research on another forum looking at the median household incomes of the school districts that were in 2007 GN semis, and most of them were well over the national average. But it's the same way in every activity, and really pales in comparison to the exorbitant funds lavished on top high school athletics programs. There are exceptions though. Schools from poorer areas like West Johnston and Ben Davis manage to compete successfully in BOA without breaking the bank. Adair County HS, a small band from rural Kentucky, is the most spectacular example of this. So while rare, it is possible for a small, poorer band to succeed with a motivated director and a good booster program. How likely is that to happen in DCI? Apples and oranges, I know, but still . . . Anyways, without BOA, where would our top corps get their show ideas? Where would DCPers, who are oh-so more grown up and mature than the high school students they love to savage, direct their never ending torrent of whining? This is a very interesting post, Rifuarian. You should post more often. I'm not really part of the BOA world, other than what I read on DCP. What does it take to build up a good band program, not just at the top level, but in the second tier which gets really good things done, too? Obviously, an inspirational director, with lots of skills in lots of areas. Good feeder programs. Good parent support. Good support from the board or school district, whatever. Different school bands get their money from different sources, but they've got money, or they don't stay at least in the second tier for more than a year or two. BOA may already be in serious trouble financially, or they may, as suggested above, just be using the old fundraiser trick of blowing the crisis dirge even though there's really no urgent crisis. But you have to think, if they're dependent on bands paying-to-play, the outlook could be down for them. A lot of their costs, for running circuits and competitions and GN, are fixed. But school districts may see funding decreasing and have to make cuts. Bands may not be getting the support from businesses and parents they've gotten in recent years. If participation drops off, BOA may not make it, with a pay-to-play formula for funding what they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Of the handful of BOA finalist bands I have worked with, I can't think of a single one whose school allowance for the fall marching band was greater than a few thousand dollars. All of them have extremely effective booster programs that raise the tens of thousands of dollars it takes to fund their season. These programs aren't spending huge amounts of public education money, they're funded by band parents and members of the local community who choose to support the program. So let's not act as though competitive marching band is siphoning countless public tax dollars. Even in affluent areas, these programs get pennies from the school district. Wrong. The salaries of the band directors alone represent a nine-figure subsidy (yes, over a hundred million dollars), which comes from our tax dollars. Never mind how many bands also have other expenses covered in their school budget, such as: assistant directors instruments other equipment (i.e. uniforms, flags, rifles, props) transportation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 My understanding is that there are over 25,000 HS in total, including public, parochial and independent, a vague memory from seeing something the College Board published. Yup. I saw a 27,000 number in print somewhere. But I don't know how many of those 27,000 high schools have music programs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhs alumni Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 sounds like he could recruit a few names in to fill out the lineup. doesnt sound like they were trying to stack the show with only names. no, that was the point....USSBA wanted to take over the show, the lineup is large enough. this show has been very succesful and has ran for years and caters to the local schools. the closest "names" that I can figure are about 3 hours away. The point of the show is to give a show to these smaller districts...and to give the University band another great day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Wrong. The salaries of the band directors alone represent a nine-figure subsidy (yes, over a hundred million dollars), which comes from our tax dollars. Never mind how many bands also have other expenses covered in their school budget, such as:assistant directors instruments other equipment (i.e. uniforms, flags, rifles, props) transportation ALL of those expenditures would exist if the bands did not go to BOA. As long as there are marching band programs, there will be expenses for (to match 'my' terms with yours): * crednetialed teachers to teach the students * instruments/classroom supplies for students to use while enrolled in a school class/program * uniforms and other equipment you mentioned * transportation to competitions and/or away football games Also keep in mind that band directors' salaries go towards A LOT more than directing just the marching band. In a typical job, and instrumental music director will teach: * possibly 3-4 concert bands * marching band * jazz band * orchestra * conduct the music for the school musical * pep band for athletic teams (like basketball) on top of managing other groups like: * chamber orchestra group(s) * winter percussion group (concert ensemble and/or drumline) * winter guard(s) * brass/woodwind choirs * solo/ensemble groups AND, on top of that, since you can't rely on either the school district or parents to pay for your program entirely, directors have to manage fundraisers through out the year, including: * hosting/running a marching band tournament * hosting/running a concert band festival Sometimes, depending on the district and the state of the economy, music teachers may not even get an extra stipend to do all of that extra stuff, ALL of which also includes evening performances. Going by that 'job description' alone (which, by the way, is what we have at my high school), I'd say the tax payers get a lot more bang for their buck than they do for the average teacher. Then again, looking at that list of job requirements, it's no wonder why the average "career" of a high school band director is slightly less than 10 years. Now, what you may not know, is the vast majority of expenses incurred by band programs are funded by Booster organizations (i.e. the parents of the students). Typically tax dollars go towards paying for the teachers (not the entire band staff, but the instrumental music directors/asst. directors), a portion of travel, and a (VERY) small portion of supplies/repairs. Looking at the financial records for the band I teach, the portion payed by boosters vs. our school district/tax dollars is huge. Our district gives us a few thousands for repairs, about $1500 for "classroom supplies" (which goes toward some transportation as well as other needed items like copy paper and office supplies), and every once in awhile in a good year they give us a couple hundred dollars to "update our music library." Every 8 years they have supplied us with new marching band uniforms, and in return we are expected to entertain the football fans and support our athletic teams with pep ralleys and other school functions. That's it. When you see a BOA Finalist school, a large majority of their expenses are being paid for by their parent booster organization, with only a small percentage paid for with tax dollars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mayormccheese Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Farewell, BOA. We hardly knew thee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhs alumni Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Wrong. The salaries of the band directors alone represent a nine-figure subsidy (yes, over a hundred million dollars), which comes from our tax dollars. Never mind how many bands also have other expenses covered in their school budget, such as:assistant directors instruments other equipment (i.e. uniforms, flags, rifles, props) transportation you know of a band director who makes a nine-figure salary????? cause in IL the beginning teacher salary is probably closer to $40,000 if you're in a good district in the chicago suburbs. plus as already stated, you're wrong....the money for all that comes from boosters, next to nothing from the district Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bawker Posted January 16, 2009 Author Share Posted January 16, 2009 you know of a band director who makes a nine-figure salary????? cause in IL the beginning teacher salary is probably closer to $40,000 if you're in a good district in the chicago suburbs. He's referring to multiplying the amount of band directors by their salary . . . Let's say 15,000 or so directors times about $30,000 = $450,000,000, the "nine figure" amount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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