Star 86

[Mephistopheles]

Two words: G bugles

While I appreciate your sentiment,

"G" is not a word.

We G lovin' folk must be above reproach in our quest to spread the gospel of greatness...

[SaraNYC]

That was Donnie and Jimmer's first year with the hornline. The returning members of the hornline from '85 already had a concept of breathing and playing together with a big sound via John Simpson and Dave Tippett.

IMO, Star '86=one of the most underrated hornlines in DCI

[Michael Boo]

...

The 18 contras was only for the "Close Encounters" segment, tho. What I DO wonder was where the other 6 came from.

...

I was told at the time that the other six contras were borrowed, but I don't remember the full story.

[HornsUp]

What I DO wonder was where the other 6 came from.

Cincinatti.

[84BDsop]

Cincinatti.

Ahhh...I didn't realize....thanks. Makes sense (close by, recently folded, etc)

[mchromik]

The extra Contras were not ex-Pride of Cincy horns. Pride was on DEGS and the extra 6 where K-90s. My memory of the winter of 86' is fuzzy, but I believe the extra six were new purchases during the winter. They came in with a new line of Euphoniums. In 85' we had marched an entire line of Baritones. The massive Euphs really rounded out the sound, and 'buffed up' those tasked with playing them. The part-time contra players where from the Euph line.

86' was a huge step forward and the beginning of the great brass lines to come. Donnie and Jimmer came on board and laid out an entirely new program. We were ready and receptive and we soon worshiped at the alter of Breath Dah. We went through a good deal of music changes that year, with several minutes and entire pieces changing while on tour. The cords at the end of Close Encounters were added by Jimmer for second tour and were a hit from the start. The 'No holes' concept was in full effect there. We learned to sweat that summer, and grew a great deal as a group. Unfortunately, the management was not entirely pleased with the amount of changes and demands placed on the membership by George, Mark, and some of the other former Cadets staff we all loved. The next year found us going in a completely different direction as a group with all new brass, visual, and guard staff. That proved similarly unproductive and in 88' Donnie returned and we started over with Breath Dah. By 90 George was back and the rest is history. I cannot help but daydream what may have been if Donnie, Jimmer, George, Mark and the rest had remained consistently and allowed us to continue forward with the groundwork laid down in 86'.

Edited January 22, 2009 by mchromik

[bullethead]

Regarding G bugles and volume:

Firstly, I'm curious how many people have really had the chance to actually listen to the same ensemble play both concert and G bugles in the same setting (or even within minutes of each other), in order to accurately evaluate any difference in volume and general sound. As a member of Brass Theater, I had such an opportunity for entire seasons. I am a percussionist (and was a band director after my corps days), but you may also consider that it is likely difficult to accurately guage these issues while a horn is attached to your face.

It was very interesting to witness first-hand our use of both types of horns in Brass Theater. As a drummer, and therefore having no preconceived bias for any particular type of horn, the (as far as I could tell, and especially amongst the percussionists) overwhelming sentiment after using the concert horns was "Why are we using the bugles again?". The quality of sound and intonation of the concert horns was noticeably superior to the bugles, and with our brass, I don't remember anyone sensing any perceivable difference in volume. Key word here, is "perceivable". While it may be argued that the G bugles individually push more sound, it could likewise be argued that due to superior intonation, the concert horns equal or surpass this due to a more unified pitch center.

[mchromik]

Over the years I have tried to bring up the Brass Theater experience while debating the G vs. Concert Pitch horns many times. Unfortunately most people don't remember the early years of BT when the G horns where still in use. I betting that it is the only accurate experiment we will ever get on this subject where the same line plays both types of horns with the same technique and approach. Of course I would also bet that it will not sway the more ardent supporters of either camp anyhow.

[84BDsop]

Over the years I have tried to bring up the Brass Theater experience while debating the G vs. Concert Pitch horns many times. Unfortunately most people don't remember the early years of BT when the G horns where still in use. I betting that it is the only accurate experiment we will ever get on this subject where the same line plays both types of horns with the same technique and approach. Of course I would also bet that it will not sway the more ardent supporters of either camp anyhow.

It would have to be done by some mechanical means as well...we ALL know that you can play a middle C on a G horn and then the same pitch on a Bb and have the sound vary because of lip placement and other factors.

It'd be an interesting experiment....cue the Mythbusters!

[G-horns]

Over the years I have tried to bring up the Brass Theater experience while debating the G vs. Concert Pitch horns many times. Unfortunately most people don't remember the early years of BT when the G horns where still in use. I betting that it is the only accurate experiment we will ever get on this subject where the same line plays both types of horns with the same technique and approach. Of course I would also bet that it will not sway the more ardent supporters of either camp anyhow.

Indoors, I think concert pitch ensemble wins going away. Outdoors is another matter, and I'm not so sure about the carrying ability of concert brass - especially trumpets.