BDB/SCVC

[oldschooldbc]

The support organization you speak of is largely made up of B and C corps parents. Since most of the A Corps members are imports, who do you think runs the shows, the fund raising?? Its the local volunteers and the local parents. Our equipment is far from excellent but on par with other top 25 corps and there are many things that we need/want that we can't get. Our instructors are mostly A Corps age outs, who are great kids and work hard, but no one will deny that there is a definate learning curve (and difference) between a seasoned instuctor and someone transitioning between performance and instruction. I am not saying, "Oh poor BDB" what I am saying is that this attitude of BDB being some favored darling child of the open class by virtue of its association with its World Class sibling is not fair to the kids.

While I do not fault anyone for their opinion, I felt as the mother of a child in BDB, as the wife of a board member of the Blue Devils and as an alumnus of the 86 World Champion Corps, I was a little more qualified to comment on what I perceived as a misperception of a fellow DCP member

This message has been heavily edited by my husband but I pushed the "post" button before he got to the last draft........ snicker

I'm not selling short what the performers do out on the field. I am sure that they work hard, and are extremely dedicated. And if they win on Saturday night, I am sure they will deserve it, and they will have my utmost respect.

But there are advantages that the top 2 California corps have over other competitors in OC. The biggest advantage, as I see it, are bingos. That is a huge fundraising advantage for the California operations. (The same is true for outfits from Wisconsin, and other states that permit bingos.)

In Texas, we cannot use bingos for DBC, or for any other educational organization. The state legislature has strictly forbidden it. It is a miracle that the DBC has survived in this state, without this fundraiser. Crossmen face this, and their tour fees are over 3 grand this year.

Revo had financial problems during this tour, as was highlighted in this forum on several occasions. There were a number of reasons behind this, including members who had difficulty in paying dues. But fundraising contributed a fraction of their budget. Why? No bingo.

If we were permitted to hold bingos in this state, the Revo parents and alumni would staff it. And yes, it would produce enough funds to make a difference. Unfortunately, the state legislators say no. And they aren't going to budge, because bingos cut into the earnings of the state lottery.

Look, the situation is what it is. It isn't going to change anytime soon. The management of the Texas corps will simply have to find some other way to cope financially. It isn't a level playing field, and anyone involved in DBC in Texas will simply have to live with it.

As I have stated previously in this forum, I am a Revo parent, and my opinions are my own. I do not represent Revo staff or management, or that of any other DBC.

[MagicBobert]

I'm not sure how much a leg-up bingo really is, considering the Devs (A or B) have had to travel east of the Rockies (at the very closest) every year except one for finals. Sure it brings in money, but I can't even imagine the bills for the west coast corps to be traveling back to Indiana every year, especially with BDB having an extended midwest tour this year and going to finals for the fourth year in a row.

What exactly are you arguing about, oldschooldbc? If you agree that their success on the field is solely up to the performers, but yet claim that being attached to a World Class organization helps them somehow... those seem line contradictory statements. What exactly is your point?

[oldschooldbc]

What exactly are you arguing about, oldschooldbc? If you agree that their success on the field is solely up to the performers, but yet claim that being attached to a World Class organization helps them somehow... those seem line contradictory statements. What exactly is your point?

They are not contradictory. Let me explain.

A strong support organization puts you in position to compete for a title. Without the support organization, it is difficult, if not impossible, to compete for a championship. And an association with a WC corps has to help. I can't believe that it doesn't. It has to help in the areas of finance, recruiting, instruction - the whole package. If it didn't help, then why don't BDB and SCVC strike out on their own?

(SCVC are clear about the situation: they use their OC corps as a funnel for talent to the WC corps. This gives their OC corps a big advantage in recruiting, volunteer support, and other areas. Here is the exact quote from their website: "The Vanguard Cadets are the primary training group for membership in the Vanguard." See the full article here: http://www.scvanguard.org/vanguard_cadets.)

However, the members on the field still have to earn a title. The support organization can't make the men and women on the field into champions. Ultimately, they have to do this, by gutting it out on the practice field, and by performing in the clutch, during Finals week. In the end, they are the ones who have to out-march and out-play the competition, on the last Saturday of the year.

In summary, the support organizations lay the foundation for a championship. The members are the ones who actually build it.

[ajwdad]

So, I would like to put another perspective out there. I think that the WC BD A Corp helps BDB in that former WC members are on staff. But, it actually can hurt them as both vanguard and BD are so close that good members/musicians/guards can make a WC corp, and not be in Open. Not everyone has the funding to travel the distances to get to world class organizations, and certainly SCV and DB are strong draws. If they were not so close together, and if they only fielded a single Open class corp, I bet that the open class corp would have access to stronger talent. Sounds strange, but both of the corps lose good members to their world class organizations and to each other at times.

As for Bingo being such a great advantage, I am not so sure. I know that the 2.5 day train ride in coach was not so easy, and would bet that a lot of corps spend less on travel given the location in Indy. In fact, B corp has not gone to that many world championships. Just a few years ago, it did not go. (I think 4 years ago, but not sure)

In full disclosure, I am the parent of a BDB member, and have had 2 others in the BD organization. I do know of BD members going to Vanguard, and B core going to Vanguard as well. I am sure that the other has happened. I do think that it is a credit to the organizations that this thread even exists, especially considering that BDB has never won a world championship. And, this corp is stronger than ever.

I know Rick, and he does a great job. I don't know the vanguard leadership, but clearly, they do a great job as well. Finally, I and most BD parents, feel lucky and grateful for the organization that BD is and the lessons that our kids/young adults are learning.

Best,

[CanadianDirector]

OK...I totally can see where both BDBMom and the Revo parent are coming from but consider this.....(perhaps this is it's own thread although I know it has been mentioned before).....In Canada we have NO World Class corps, no World Class shows to draw any attention, no American corps that will come to Canada for a show, no local school band programs to draw from (well only a few, there are less high school marching programs in all of Canada then in California alone) and to boot, other then last summer, for every dollar that the Canadian corps have to pay out for fuel, food housing, and other expenses, due to the currency exchange we have to raise on average 35 cents more just to be equal, what if you told any corps that they need to increse their budget by 35%? So I can understand what the Revo parent is saying, if the Blue Devil organization relocated to Canada, I am sure there would be some renewed interest in drum corps. There are currently 3 junior drum corps actively competing in DCI from Canada. Not that many years ago there were many corps in Div. II/III and at least one open class corps, at one time we had a thriving drum corps circuit. The only reason I say this is now that open class prelims are over (well almost) we know the Blue Saints score, and this group is traditional drum corps that deserves as much respect as the World Class Champion imo, they take youth from the streets, train them, raise money to tour and give the experience of a lifetime to some special young people. So while I totally agree with what BDBMom says, I can see and understand where the Revo parent is coming from. So take it as you will all the Open Class corps deserve respect and have my admiration and support. Sorry for venting, just want to have more drum corps to share with the youth all the wonderful experiences it brings.

[oldschooldbc]

There are currently 3 junior drum corps actively competing in DCI from Canada. Not that many years ago there were many corps in Div. II/III and at least one open class corps, at one time we had a thriving drum corps circuit. The only reason I say this is now that open class prelims are over (well almost) we know the Blue Saints score, and this group is traditional drum corps that deserves as much respect as the World Class Champion imo, they take youth from the streets, train them, raise money to tour and give the experience of a lifetime to some special young people.

It is actually worse than you think, CanadianDirector. There was a time when Canadian corps were on par with those in U.S. - not at the WC level, but at the OC level.

When I marched in 1983, Les Chatelaines, from Quebec, won the Class A title - the forerunner of today's Open Class. (Back then, the top division in DCI was called Open Class, and the second division was Class A.) They were an excellent all-female corps, and were both competitive and entertaining.

Today, they would get bulldozed, if they tried competing in Open Class. It is sad, really, when you think about it. That's 60-70 individuals - regardless of gender - who will never experience drum corps, let alone the thrill of competing for a title.

Talk to KusanKusho, who is a frequent member of these forums. He is a former percussion tech with Dutch Boy. He can give you the full rundown of the Canadian corps that used to provide this experience to the young men of your fine country - and no longer can afford to.

Like I said in a previous post - it is what it is. I see little opportunity for changing the status quo - or the direction of Open Class. Could there be some sea change, that would make open class both deeper, broader, and more competitive? It could happen. If anyone knows of what it would take, I am all ears.

[ajwdad]

Hey Canadian director;

this question is for information only, not meant in any negative way whatsoever. But, why the lack of marching bands, is it the weather? Seriously, I marched in North Dakota for a football season, and it was not a lot of fun. Here in California, some bands are good, some are not. But, we are quite lucky to have both vanguard and blue devils in our area. I am only 40 miles from either, but my sons chose Blue Devils... even though I work about 1 mile from Vanguard headquarters.

thanks,

[oldschooldbc]

Hey Canadian director;

this question is for information only, not meant in any negative way whatsoever. But, why the lack of marching bands, is it the weather? Seriously, I marched in North Dakota for a football season, and it was not a lot of fun. Here in California, some bands are good, some are not. But, we are quite lucky to have both vanguard and blue devils in our area. I am only 40 miles from either, but my sons chose Blue Devils... even though I work about 1 mile from Vanguard headquarters.

thanks,

Undoubtedly, one major factor is sports. American football is nowhere near as common in Canada as in the U.S. Hockey is the #1 sport in that nation. Other traditional American sports - football, baseball, basketball, etc. - are all a distant second. And no, you do not need a marching band at a hockey game. That alone keeps down the number of marching programs in Canada.

This may be the most prevalent factor. I am sure that there are a myriad of other issues - financial, organizational, etc. I will let CanadianDirector fill us in on the details. As an insider, I am sure he knows more than we outsiders do.

[Wildabeast]

Also, calling a feud between SCVC and BDB is a bit much.

Interpret it as jargon, nothing more.

[CanadianDirector]

Well sadly I am totally aware of the number of corps that used to come from Ontario and Quebec not to mention those from out west, My family has been involved with drum corps for more then 50 years, I have been involved since I was born. There are several factors while there are no real school marching programs in Canada, probably just social more then anything. We do not have the same emphasis on sports, specifically football, to drive a program. As well as economic conditions, where it would be very difficult to start or revitalize a school band program when all the other art programs are being cut/diminished. Unfortunately, many friends I had growing up and into my twenties (I have lost touch with most of them now), never felt it was cool to be in any band program, add to that the few (well 2 at the time) of high school bands were about 80 members large and not very technically proficient (polite way of saying their end quality was not very good) and the growth factor among the students becomes nil. So while there is little interest in starting any new programs, the few there are have a hard time to maintain operating. Add to that the fact that jr. drum and bugle corps in Ontario during the 60's and into the very early 70's was the way that many local communities had a marching program. Independent organizations that provided the membership the opportunity to performn in a marching ensemble, thus we used to have a lot of drum corps in Ontario. Hope that helps, off to work now.....