CanadianDirector

we had tried to get something going when Dutch Boy used to camp here, unfortunately, nothing ever came about. I am investigating a youth drumline. Due to the lack of bands in Canada, especially in this area, it is hard to get support financially, people have no idea what it costs, but lots of volunteers. The plan at this point is to have a youth drumline that will perform a few local parades and functions and do a standstill style indoor show hopefully for the fall of 2014. I am in talks currently with one of the service clubs in town to help fund and sponsor. Taking it slowly as it is only myself spearheading this. If there is anyone that has some advice, knowledge, feel free to PM me. I have a strong business and non profit background, have been involved in the marching activity my entire life, but to put something like this together while still juggling all the other things is difficult. Glad to know you liked Goderich, things are really starting to come back after the tornado last year. OK back on topic, great pics, so......does anyone else have any pics of old corps equipment just found in random places?

When the bus was brought to the shop, I had a thousand questions from some people in town....asking if it was a new group starting up, what was a drum corps? Why were they here in Town? Many in town know of my association with bands, drum corps etc... so as they drove by they would call me at work and ask about it.

Actually the guy who has it is really nice, he will gladly show anyone the bus in and out, but you had better make an offer or he gets a bit upset....Although no sign on it, I know it is for sale, however was told they had it started (it used to be directly in front of the shop) and they moved it to the side, have been told it does not start anymore

I had posted about this bus on here shortly after it arrived in town. I did some research and asking around, apparently the story I was told (the same as Rick only more detail).....The bus blew the engine at DCI finals in Buffalo, it was determined that the cost to repair was more than it was worth, it was picked up by a wrecker?or mechanic? and sold almost instantly for next to nothing to the owner of the welding shop here in town, his original idea was to convert it to a motorhome. I drive by this bus all the time, and makes me nostalgic about when Canada had a lot of drum corps....as a side note, the small trailer that Kiwanis Kavaliers had before they got their semi's was sold to a shop about 2 miles up the road from where the bus is. That was a really wierd few months, driving by and seeing a crown bus and kaviliers trailer. Perhaps Goderich is the home of dead corps vehicles to the North.

Well here in Goderich Ontario we did not feel it, thank goodness, Sunday a F3 tornado ripped apart our town, The scary part is this area is not Tornado prone. The quake was felt in areas only a few miles from us but no one I spoke to noticed, I am posting a video of before and after the tornado, our town is completely devasted, almost all the buildings you see in the photos around the town square, will have to be demolished, many areas still no hydro, no natural gas, the downtown core known as the square is under police lockdown. The bandshell gazebo is completely demolished, I know this is off topic but to be honest......I am on here to try and not think about it(which is unsuccessful) or just absorb what has happened, our house has minimal damage, we have hydro we are lucky, many of our friends are not so lucky. There was only one fatality, By the grace of God, many of the business that collapsed or were crushed had patrons at the time, most escaped with minmal non serious injuries, a few serious. go to that "tube" that shall not be named and type Goderich Tornado, to Goderich with love....

After reading the entire thread, it would seem that perhaps things are not as bad as first reported....however, as someone who has been involved in drum corps, marching bands and the business world, it seems there are some serious communication issues between the management and the staff and definietely the parents. I am glad that the explanation appears to resolve the major issues, and anyone who has travelled with a charter company, understands there are huge challenges in regards to how drum corps travels and the senior citizens on a a day trip to a casino. But there is obviously still some management issues to be resolved. When all are home safe, and the tempers have cooled I hope that everyone will have their say, and a resolution will be found that will create a positive outcome for the future of Revolution. And some say that this forum may not be the place to air dirty laundry, but if you are a parent 'protecting' your child and others any place to say your peace becomes fair game. BUT everyone must stay level headed and look at ALL the factors before making a snap decision, perhaps the issue that has caused all this discussion could have been better resolved if 1. the parents spoke directly to the corps director/management and 2. the corps director/management have a more accurate/efficient way of informing the parents and especially if someone other than the person in charge is responsible for the ride home. Just my 2 cents but when the dust settles it seems that the situation may not have been as dire as reported, BUT this is one of those lessons that anyone in management can learn something from....communication is key, all the time to everyone involved in the organization, perhaps that would have clarified a few issues before it blew up on dcp.

It has been a few years since I was actively involved in any situation with "International" corps but my basic understanding in DCI is an International Corps is any corps that is NOT from North America. In terms of ages of members, I also am of the understanding that if the unit is a junior unit (regardless of what the maximum age of the members are, as different circuits in different countries allow for members of varying ages due to their social structure), and yes, Field size, timing also play factors, then as a "junior" group they are allowed to participate in DCI events. Canadian corps are not allowed to compete in International Division because when DCI formed there was at least one (maybe 2) Canadian corps involved and that is why it is called Drum Corps INTERNATIONAL (I believe Micheal Boo has some history of that, I saw it in a thread on here once, was that you that reported that Mike?????) so in DCI basically, as long as in your home country you are considered a junior corps, and you are not from North America, you can compete in International Division.

In 1987, Ventures All Girl Corps from Kitchener, Ontario, performed their opener, Jubilance I belive, a symphonic concert band type of piece, and the rest of the show was music from Sweet Charity, in 1988 the entire show was from Sweet Charity. They Won Div. II in 1987 and placed in the top 25 as well. If memory serves me correct, they placed 2nd in Div. II in 1988 and again placed in the top 25 that year. Dave McKinnon (now Bluecoats) was the music director at the time and did some great arranging.

OK so I have been very quiet on the forums of late, but I need to chime in from a bit of a different perspective: When I was involved in hiring the musical acts for a parade (marching bands, drum corps Jr. Sr. Alumni, pipe bands etc...) we would ask for promotional material from groups, we would advertise them, show off what they gave us, pay very, very good money to them, I had a similar situation happen with a band, we hired them from the material they gave us, very polished very professional all high school aged, then when they do the parade, they are in half uniforms (All their literature bragged about their "New" uniforms and how amazing they looked) how many awards they had one, how they were much more mature then their ages (high school) anyways they strolled through the parade, barely played were trying to be laid back, after all was said and done I contacted the director to explain my dissappointment as they never stated anywhere about their "new image" the director did not get what I was saying so I started quoting his own bands promo info about music, uniforms etc.... he explained it wasn't judged and the kids needed to relax a bit, I have no problem with that but based on on the information we were given THAT WAS NEVER STATED, so I still gave them a cheque for several thousand dollars, and then had to explain to the committee why we paid for a group that did not live up to their own description. The point is I get it is only a parade but, is this the image they send out in their promo package? Is this what the persons paying them to be there knew they were getting? We always tried to hire the best possible available groups and a variety of military style, more laid back, bands on floats, small bands and large bands (and corps) to say it was a dissappointment is an understatement. Some people on here say it is only a parade, and if the event organizers and ultimately the crowd think that they got their money's worth then that's great, but when you hire a DCI world Class top corps their is an expectation, after all when I hired groups that was exactly why we hired them, because they were the best of the best. A very wise drum corps man once said (many times to his corps, and was passed down to me from one of his students) to paraphrase If you do not have class off the field, you can not have class on the field, the falseness of your attitude and actions will show through, not always but inevitably the one time and one place you do not wish it to happen. Ultimately not a great portrayl of Carolina Crown in my opinion, but it is their decision, so who am I to say whether it was right or wrong?

Well back in the seventies both the Oakland Crusaders and Seneca Optomists were Open Class finalists. Dutch Boy in 1990 and always in the hunt of that 12th spot from 1987-1992 or so, and Kiwanis Kavaliers just barely missing it in 1996(?), not to mention Les Etoiles and didn't Acadamie Musicale go Open as well?. I think that Canada has had a strong showing in World Class and a great showing in Class A/All Girl/Div. A/A60, Div. II/III. There would be no easy answer in restarting the drum corps community in Ontario, however a few things would need to change, but that is a totally whole other thread.

Well sadly I am totally aware of the number of corps that used to come from Ontario and Quebec not to mention those from out west, My family has been involved with drum corps for more then 50 years, I have been involved since I was born. There are several factors while there are no real school marching programs in Canada, probably just social more then anything. We do not have the same emphasis on sports, specifically football, to drive a program. As well as economic conditions, where it would be very difficult to start or revitalize a school band program when all the other art programs are being cut/diminished. Unfortunately, many friends I had growing up and into my twenties (I have lost touch with most of them now), never felt it was cool to be in any band program, add to that the few (well 2 at the time) of high school bands were about 80 members large and not very technically proficient (polite way of saying their end quality was not very good) and the growth factor among the students becomes nil. So while there is little interest in starting any new programs, the few there are have a hard time to maintain operating. Add to that the fact that jr. drum and bugle corps in Ontario during the 60's and into the very early 70's was the way that many local communities had a marching program. Independent organizations that provided the membership the opportunity to performn in a marching ensemble, thus we used to have a lot of drum corps in Ontario. Hope that helps, off to work now.....

OK...I totally can see where both BDBMom and the Revo parent are coming from but consider this.....(perhaps this is it's own thread although I know it has been mentioned before).....In Canada we have NO World Class corps, no World Class shows to draw any attention, no American corps that will come to Canada for a show, no local school band programs to draw from (well only a few, there are less high school marching programs in all of Canada then in California alone) and to boot, other then last summer, for every dollar that the Canadian corps have to pay out for fuel, food housing, and other expenses, due to the currency exchange we have to raise on average 35 cents more just to be equal, what if you told any corps that they need to increse their budget by 35%? So I can understand what the Revo parent is saying, if the Blue Devil organization relocated to Canada, I am sure there would be some renewed interest in drum corps. There are currently 3 junior drum corps actively competing in DCI from Canada. Not that many years ago there were many corps in Div. II/III and at least one open class corps, at one time we had a thriving drum corps circuit. The only reason I say this is now that open class prelims are over (well almost) we know the Blue Saints score, and this group is traditional drum corps that deserves as much respect as the World Class Champion imo, they take youth from the streets, train them, raise money to tour and give the experience of a lifetime to some special young people. So while I totally agree with what BDBMom says, I can see and understand where the Revo parent is coming from. So take it as you will all the Open Class corps deserve respect and have my admiration and support. Sorry for venting, just want to have more drum corps to share with the youth all the wonderful experiences it brings.

I took some friends to show them what I was always talking about/involved with. I took a different approach. We started early and met up with a corps at their practice/housing site. I found some staff I had taught with, introduced them, they invited my guests to watch, close up with them. We were invited for lunch and we saw the cook trailer, trucks buses etc.....it was one of the assistant directors at the time who explained about being on the road, housing, travelling etc... My one friend was at that time more interested in the trucks and trailers, the set up etc....to the point where he started telling them about changing their set up on the cooker, once he was told why it was that set up, he understood, when he saw it in action, he really got it, (note to self....never take a trucker/auto enthusiast to a drum corps show/housing site without blindfolding them through the parking lot), lol so we watched some ensemble rehersal, then the staff offered for us to view with them the run through (up on the scaffolding) only one or two did, the rest of us just stood back. We thanked everyone, went for supper to a decent restaurant, made our way to the stadium, bought souvies, put money in the "fuel fund" jars got our seats, I did not need to explain a whole lot as the staff had done that while they were watching rehersal. At the end of the night we went to see the corps off, one of my friends slipped a few dollars to the director to add to the fuel fund, although he did not ever tell us how much, I saw at least $100 leave his hand. They were not only impressed by the shows themselves but also with the members, their attitudes, politeness and respect for the staff. All in all a great time. Although this would be draining on almost all rookies, my friends seem to get it and can't wait till we can get together again to see some drum corps, unfortunately, due to schedules we have never been able to get all of us together for a show, but I know one guy follows the action from DCI.org and I think, although he won't say it, makes donations to some corps every year. Good friends, great corps, amazing day, what else could be said.

One of the things I found very helpful when on tour with various groups was the use of office space and a phone that allowed for local outgoing calls in a quiet area. With cell phones, depending on the area, roming charges can be brutal when trying to find a mechanic that can do onsite repairs or a store if looking for a particular product. A desk to write at is alot better then your lap on the bus. One thing I use to utalize, and this can be from either the host or if you volunteer on tour with a corps, perhaps you can arrange this yourself. I belong to a service club in Canada called the KINSMEN (actually now it's called KIN CANADA), alot like the Optimists or Lion's Clubs, anyways, while on staff I would look at our schedule, if we were in an area where there is a nearby club for a couple days (death camp, remember that term?????) I would often make contact ahead of time, invite the president and a few members out to see the group, ask if they could assist with any needs (food runs, general info, any members who are mechanics, doctors/emt's etc....) on more then one occasion, I would inquire as to if they could donate a supper or lunch. I made a lot of new friends and great contacts doing so and the groups usually got a nice treat. Short story...I once invited several members of a service club to visit a band I was with while we were housed for the July 4 celebrations (we were in the same location for several days) they saw the band rehearse, saw them in the local parade, and standstill, what cost our band 3 extra meals as these people were watching gained us a full bar-b-q supper (with vegetarian options) some treats (ice cream and cake) some care packages for the bus, the staff were treated to a night out at their clubhouse (free beverages) and a small monetary donation, not to mention a ton of extra help and use of a laundromat (a member of the club was the owner) before we left they called an emergency meeting of the club so we could perform for them (at our request) and have since had a great relationship whenever in that area (even though I am no longer with the band, I try to send an email to both groups when they are going to be travelling that way) all in all I used my resources from my professional life to help the youth activity, makes a lot of us warm and fuzzy.

SO back on the topic, I personally do not like ties. The way I understand it, under the old rule, if two corps received the same final number (score) at the tabulation, then there was a specific set of criteria that would determine who won. As long as the rule is stated FROM THE BEGINNING and all those participating know what they are, then I feel that the outcome of choosing a "champion or winner" is justified. If you know going in that hypothitically speaking: if you tie for a placement then they will determine the winner of that placement by the group with the highest number of caption points....so if you know this going in and you aim for the highest possible score in each caption, what would be the difference if you tied and won because more of your captions were higher scores then your competitor or you won by 0.001 because of one caption? As designers, staff, members, as long as you know the criteria, then it should be valid......now that they have removed the "tie breaker" isn't this a mute point? I have been involved with groups as a member and administration that has tied for a placement and in one instance a lot of prize money and I have to say I felt jipped both times. As was said before I find that not always being the winner is what helps you to dig deeper, try harder, play smarter, just mho

I would hope that my post would not be construed (sp?) as any type of legal advice, I only know that if I were to participate IN MY MUNICIPALITY IN CANADA (which I stated at the beginning of the post) it would, under our current laws be considered a fair and legal auction (provided that all the parties actually do as they say they are going to do). I would however like to state a few things: I understand completely what Newseditor44 was saying, and I was replying based on my location, although I understand a mute point since the Blue Stars are not from Canada but, the thought process that both Whitedawn and Newseditor44 bring forth is something that perhaps more organizations (and not just drum corps) need to consider before engaging in fundraisers etc.... I know a lot of groups have a 50/50 draw at shows or banquets etc... again this is my community so take it for what it is worth, even for a small draw you need to obtain a license from Town Hall, failure to do so can and has in our town stopped those groups from obtaining a lottery license for their "big draw" later in the same year. Something as small as a 50/50 draw that may earn you $150.00 can cost a lot more in fines, penalties and bad press, there is one group in our town who needed to get a service club to sponsor their draw for that very reason. So although it is probably not likely that someone may "shut them down" the bad press alone is enough to kill an upcoming fundraiser or make it impossible to proceed legally. Just sayin' but back on topic, if I could I would still LOVE the opportunity to participate.

OK I have to chime in, be patient this may be a bit long, first I am from Canada where some laws are different but usually similar, take this with a grain of salt but perhaps this may ease some of the concerns Newseditor44 has. First there has to be an understanding that an auction is very different from a lottery or BINGO. Those are games of chance, you purchase a ticket for the opprtunity to play a game and PERHAPS win. In an auction, you participate and you control at what level you wish to continue, like walking through K-Mart during the blue light special. In the eyes of our laws here, the biggest questions that would be asked are....Is the auction being advertised correctly, that is who is administering the auction and the item for it (in this case the Blue Stars, therefore ultimately the highest level of management such as the bod and the opportunity to conduct the hornile), is there a fee to enter the auction (apparently not), is there an Auction House - an aution company or auctioneer who is licensed to and pays appapropriate business tax to the governing municipalityas they operate a business to sell items through auction on consignment and recieve a fee for doing so, (aparently no) are the terms clear (yes highest bid by specific date is the winner to conduct at a specific location or date or arrange an alternate with management) So in my municipality, this auction would be 100% legal, and here is the explanation, first the medium the auction takes place (internet, live, phone etc...) has no bearing on it's legitimacy (sp?) there is no auctioneer or auction house being paid to administer the auction, there are terms set out. As those terms and the content may vary from location to location, where I am from it would be seen as legit. As far as would it be legal to have the membership (especially those not the age of majority participate) Upon membership within an organization a release for many items would usually have to be signed by those of the age of majority in that region or their guardians, this often includes the use of the person in promo material, video/picyures, fundraising etc... my understanding is that in the "contract" members enter with most DCI corps, these items are pretty standard. So in the end basically there would be no difference to running this auction then having a bake sale. The laws for gaming/gambling are there to protect consumers, not the organizers and so fees and licences would need to be paid and obtained. Although the auction may seem loose in it's terms, by all my information it is 100% legal. So, from the standpoint of a governing municipality or heaven forbid a judge in a civil matter, if you are not clear about the terms of the auction either gather more information or avoid it. In my area, an aution is seen as much like a yard sale, a private group or person offering something for sale at a price to be determined by the parties involved on a one time or or very occasional basis (in our municipality no more then twice in 12 months), however if there was an auction house involved, this would be like running a business, where business taxes etc... would have to be declared, really confusing all this long tid bit of info but in a nutshell, it would appear that the corps has met all the terms and is having a private auction (meaning they will not be doing this on a regular basis or paying someone a fee to adminster the auction) so for those so inclined....bid high!!!!!! (On Topic.....I would love to be able to participate in this!!!!!)

Well, in the past few years Dutch Boy has camped in Goderich, which is Ontario's West Coast

Although I am not a brass player, I taught a band that did many Canadian Winter/Christmas parades and the hand warmer is a good idea and usually works well but you will need to put it in a sock or wrap a piece of fabric around the warmer. Some brand(s), sorry I do not remember which one(s), will actually tarnish/damage the finish to some horns. I do not know why exactly, out of using this method for several years and countless parades and musicians, there were two instances where the horns were permenantly damaged. I do not know if the packages ripped or leaked etc....all I know is a very angry parent in January after a severe repair bill because the director "told the members to use the warmers". It works well just be sure to keep the pacakage away from direct contact, i guess. Better to be safe then sorry. Oh and if you can try to put it on a few mins before going outside (like on the bus). It tends to work better then trying to warm the metal from being cold.

In response to a question earlier in the thread....What is the difference between audio only and audio video in regards to licensing.......... As it was explained to me (I will sum it up it was a lengthy converstion) When you record audio only you are recording sound, with video you are changing the medium by providing pictures to the music, thus changing perhaps the original connotation for which the audio was originally designed. Can any confirm that this is correct (all be it simplified I know)???????????

At my office, because we play background music we have had to obtain a license from SOCAN for the past few years. When I was speaking to their representitive I was informed of the following. Because the music comes from the business (also called the "House") then a license was required to play recorded music. However if there was no "house" music and the only time music was played was if a DJ who has their own set up (i.e. not plugging into the "house" system) then it was the responsibility of the DJ to provide his license to the House, the DJ must be able to produce the license if asked by authorities...(btw, who would be the authorities.....the music police????????) but as long as the two were always seperate entities, then the "house" did not require the SOCAN license. This however is in total contradiction to the explanation I was given to the local service club I belong to in our hall, so now I am really confused......

Well some of my experience has been with lesser known composers, mostly in rock/pop. Interestingly enough, the composers (the band members) were all for a group I was with using their original song for an indoor drumline, and even allowing us to arrange it however we wished and offering to help with the arrangement, they were very intrigued, however, it was their management team (agent, lawyers and producer-representing the record label) that put a kibosh on it. We could use the work and even allow the composers to participate if: 1. We paid fees out the ying yang to everyone 2. only used their production people to record/video (would be very hard to convince a circuit to use a particular company that does not have the resources to accomplish recording for indoor drumlines) 3. We gave up all rights to the finished arrangement, sending it back to them and could sell it at their discretion to anyone they choose 4. after the last performance of the year (we had to submit a list of performances) we could not use that work again unless we paid more fees. So while perhaps some more well known composers protect there intelectual property, some of my experience has been that it is out of the composers hands. To say that this group needs a new manager would be an understatement, basically they are completely out of the loop if they ever leave the company they are with, something in the fine print of their contractual agreement that allows the production team to "own" the compositions/songs if they ever depart company.

OK.......boy there seems to be some heated discussion....let me say from my experience, this is what I know..... Most judges are very competent, intelligent and passionate people. However they are people and while it is seldom said in a blatant way, I do believe from my experiences that equipment will play a factor at some point over time, good or bad. I do not believe there was any conspiracy, any mandate from DCI to "force" the judges to push a particular brand, model, or style of product, but I do believe that most judges believe that all changes regarded as innovation are for the better. so in the end these knowledgeable smart people who evalute the groups we teach, have enough savy to do things the right way.......but I still believe from my experiences, it becomes at some point (maybe even years) follow suit or you will not "win". I honestly feel that unless you use all the tools that are available, you will not win. You may win this year, you may win next year, but in year three??????? But I do not feel there is a conspiracy, I do not feel that this is said outright. Just my impressions from first hand experiences. Oh.......and one other impression, the quality adjudicators know the difference between good or bad regardless of what it is played on. A fair statement may be "if you were to use a different haed, or drum model, those passages may be easier to hear and evalute" and I believe that almost all judges know this and choose words carefully because they honestly try to give criticism that is productive.

I would like to clarify, I was there, I heard it said, I was shocked, however to prove the point maybe a little clearer, I will tel a little story.......... A judge who judged us (I will use his name because I respect him and his approach) always gave us appropriate constructive criticism, including our equipment, but also gave the drum line the apropriate score for the notes played, how well they were played, the technique used, our use of dynamics, tempo control, the players understanding of the pieces being performed etc..... was Charlie Poole.....he made the comment that in the future if we were to change the type of drum we were using, we might obtain a more mature sound........however he always gave fair and appropriate scores based on the criteria on the sheets, on the two other cases, those judges flat out did not. I will say that in all my years of teaching bands and corps I never had heard anything like that before or since, I think the actual proof, like when a comment is made by an adjudicator is rare, however, at some point it does become put up or go home. It may take years it may take only a season, but it happens, personally, I have found that most judges will have a way to tell the staff what they believe will improve the score or product (referring specifically to equipment) in a way much like what Charlie did, without belittling the members because of budget cuts. I know the reasons we did not get the drums we wanted that year, at the top of the list was there were several local members (almost a dozen I recall) out of 80 members that if we had they would not have had the chance to experience drum corps as they did not have the funds. The only positive that came out of the two judges who chose to score us on those nights the way they did, was it put a fire in the eyes of some young performers, to leave no doubt they deserved the scores they got the rest of the season.

I wish I could express exactly how it was said......I have been around the marching activity all my life, literally, from an infant, my family either marched, taught or directed, consulted and judged, and I can tell you it was not like that, it really was keeping up with the Jonses......I always hoped and tried to tell myself that it was just misworded, but I know better, we were insignificant and so we were told what was truly on their mind, as I look back perhpas their honesty was a good thing, however, no one at the time offered to sell, give, loan, etc.....the necessary equipment at the costs we could afford. We were bringing drum corps to local youth with no other formal training, I actually found the one set of sheets where the score we got did not match the criteria on the back, it was drastic, if you go to the "which corps are using synthesizer thread, you will see the post about this (approx pg 35/36?????) Unfortunately it was one of those you had to be there to hear it moments.