Can anyone else bar the last corps on score a perfect 10?

[Rob-UK]

Is it possible for any other corps to score a perfect 10 in any one caption bar the last corps on? (for fear of the judge not 'leaving enough room').

Assuming that generally the judges would never score anyone bar the last corps a 10, it means that the only the last corps on is genuinely marked out of 100 and everyone else is scored out of 98 (20 subcaptions).

Also how does a corps further down the rankings with an exceptional section (e.g. Blue Stars colorguard or Phantom's hornline) genuinely get scored the score they would get if there were performing last?

How can DCI change this to make it equal for all corps?

- random draw would do it - but play havoc!

- what else?

[ShortAndFast]

It's probably very hard for anybody but the last group to get a 10.0 in a subcaption, because the judge is always going to want to leave room in case they see a better performance.

OTOH, it's very common for captions to finish in a different order than the corps performed. If you are in the middle of the pack, but have one caption better than the rest, you get placed higher in that caption. See PR's drums this year at all the big shows this year for one example. We've even had cases where groups have won a caption from pretty far back in the lineup - Bluecoats brass at QF 2007 is one that comes to mind.

When DCI has experimented with randomizing performance order, it basically had no effect on the competitive outcome. BOA does randomize performance order, and it doesn't seem to have much effect on outcome there either.

[tommytimp]

It was possible back in the day when breakdown was part of the judging process. In 1979 BD earned the highest score ever at that point while going on before the defending champs and pulled a 29.9 in GE. Garfield scored a perfect 30 (yeah, RIGHT) in drums in 87 going on before BD. Nowadays since it's all buildup it may be theoretically harder. But you never know what the judges will think.

[Liam]

Personally, this is why I don't think they should tally any scores until the end. Judges should be allowed to go over the "maximum" if that's the way the numbers fall and then adjust back down to scale after all the corps have been scored.

For example, let's say a judge finds he hasn't left enough room because the middle corps were significantly better than the lower corps and now he doesn't have enough room left if the top corps are significantly better than he has anticipated. In this scenario, he can continue to score based on his percieved spread, even if that means going over 10 (or 20, or whatever his "limit" is). So if the top corps ends up with a 21, so be it, and then when all corps are done, he simply readjusts all his scores down 1 point or 1.2 points or wherever he wants to top to be, before turning them in for tabulation.

This of course won't work if scores are announced throughout the performance as is the case in some contests. I just think that we put too much emphasis on the number, when it's really the spread that matters. The number is meaningless, as we could choose any scale we want instead of 0-100; it's the spread that matters no matter the scale, so I think it would be better if judges could judge spread first and apply numbers later.

[jamesjones0611]

Crown got a 19.9 in music ensemble at finals, which means they scored a 10 in one of its subcaptions, and they finished in 2nd.

[Northern Thunder]

There was the famed perfect score-happy judging at the 1975 finals. The 27th Lancers got perfect GE marks in both marching and brass, with four corps left to go behind them in the contest.

[Rob-UK]

I think this means the corps who goes on last is the only one who is truly scored out of 100, whilst everyone else is scored out of 98

[SF2K4]

See, in my mind you should be comparing every corps to the IDEA OF PERFECTION rather than comparing corps to corps... but that's very hard to do so I can understand why it's more prominent to compare to one another.

[Moz]

Here is a UK story from 1991.

We (Blue Eagles) had to carry a penalty for every competition for the 2nd half of the season (looooong story) and go on first at every show despite being one of the top three "seeds" if you will (and the defending DCUK champions to boot). Finals night we actually went on 2nd out of 8 (Sunrisers were also carrying the same penalty and score lower than us in prelims) and actually got perfect sub caption scores (50 / 50) for visual content and percussion execution. Having been third in prelims we won by 0.1 of a point over Concord (who went on last at finals)

[supersop]

I'll put this as simply as I can. I respect judges who hand out identical numbers to 2 or more corps. I hate judges who rank and rate and hand out 9.5, 9.6, 9.7, 9.8. That's how you end up with scores like 99.05. It's flat out stupid. The true job of the judge is to critique each corps in a vacuum or bubble, if you will. If the corps deserves a 8.0 or a 10 ... they should get that number. If 2 corps are worthy of a 10 or a 7.5 (based on the sheet and box criteria), then give them the score.

Rank and Rate causes deflated and inflated scores. It's not an accurate nor fair system of judging. DCI should have stopped this practice long ago. I wouldn't have had a problem with BD winning this year if 5 corps all scored between 96.1 and 96.5 with a tie in there somewhere. At least then, it would have seemed objective and fair. The same could be said for many many many years in the history of DCI.

With regards to GE and the confusion most people have with the caption .... I can't tell you how many times I've heard staff members pow wow about what it means on any given year. "I guess the judges are only going to reward execution this year" ...... "I guess our music effect is only going to go up if we max out the visual on our impacts" .... "I guess what worked last year isn't what they want this year".

Truly, this is fact and not speculation. You can even see it in Hoppy's blogs on any given year.

SORRY BUT I'M NOW HEADING INTO MY LONGEST POST ON DCP!!!!! BUT YOU WENT THERE SO I SHALL FOLLOW!

Solutions:

1. Drop GE to a 20 pt caption. Bring back the field percussion judge. Field Brass, Percussion, Visual, Guard = 40 pts. Ensemble Brass, Percussion, Visual, Guard = 40 pts. This puts heavier emphasis on Execution and Demand. No averaging of scores ... and GE would no longer be the weird and misunderstood deciding factor on any given night.

2. Maybe have a mix of tick/buildup system. Still have GE at 20 pts. Still have all the captions worth the amounts listed above. Give a mix of ticks at -.1 ... also give credit on high level demand in all captions +.1. Yes, I am one of those people who would rather have a very demanding show with a tad bit of dirt win over an easier show that is flawless. If we get lucky, 2 or 3 corps on finals night will have the demand and be flawless..... and that's Drum Corps.

3. GE must be clearly defined. As Sully said in his commentary, "We design the effects, but the kids still have to perform the effects". This to me is the perfect definition and very simply clarifies the caption. Design the effect where music and visual perfectly match at all times (highs and lows). Perform the effects with stellar execution at all times ( perfect ensemble dynamics including crescendo's, diminuendo's etc etc etc ... make music ..... have perfectly clarity in visual design that does more than just run the kids all over the field ..... make it suck you right down to field level and then shove you back by design). It needs to be a perfect harmony between extremely effective design .... and extreme execution of the designed effects. If this were adopted, this caption would be scored far differently than what it is now.

I find it extremely hard to swallow that the current judges are actually reading the sheets and scoring accordingly. Show my where and how often the following show up in the top 12 shows .. and how the score they were awarded is justified (NO THIS IS NOT A BD SLAM ... THIS HAPPENS EVERY YEAR):

Sheet Analysis:

REP>

1. Coordination - this doesn't involve patting your head and rubbing your tummy - This should be an Interpretation subcategory

2. Pacing - 1 speed or volume does not equal pacing - should be a coordination subcategory

3. Concept - This is one of 8 criteria .. not the ONLY criteria

4. Interpretation of the MUSIC - very very very subjective

5. Tension/Release - not enough of this going around these days - this should be an Interpretation subcategory

6. Impact and Climaxes - this should actually be an Interpretation subcategory

7. AESTHETIC/INTELLECTUAL/EMOTIONAL QUALITIES - part of Interpretation of Music I would suggest

8. Creativity and Originality - should be heavily weighted on the sheets

SO if I'm a judge what I feel is most important might be different from the next judge. The things I would be looking for most are:

1. Interpretation of Music = 30

2. Concept = 15

3. Creativity and Originality = 15 ............ divide total by 6 = 10pts

Under Interpretation of Music I would also include Tension/Release, Impact and Climaxes, Coordination to the music, and AESTHETIC/INTELLECTUAL/EMOTIONAL QUALITIES. If all of these qualities in a show do not directly correlate to the music interpretation ... then I don't see the need for the caption at all. Coordination to the music is a big one. Are the designers constantly integrating or are they allowing feature performers the proper space and negative space to draw attention .... Integration has overtaken continuity in the past 20 years ..... and it kinda bites. There's nothing wrong with having the guard as an extension of the form or having negative space so, GOD FORBID, a featured section can actually be seen without the rifles being 4 steps in front of them in a wedge.

Under Concept I would demand a completely coherent plot, story line, time line, form imagery/motif's, without it being overused to the point it becomes gimmicky. It's great to sell your idea or to use a prop, but it doesn't have to be done for 13 minutes straight. When you do use it .. make it count and max it out. This should be used moreso for impact or transitional moments .... not to be used exclusively throughout. IE. props and form motif have been overused and/or not used effectively. If a judge or person in the audience has to scratch their head or listen to a commentary that sounds like a post grad philosophy lecture ... you're doing something very very wrong.

Creativity and Originality ... this a very tough one. Why? Because there is very little Originality in drum corps anymore. Certain styles of writing have become accepted as what will win and most corps have gravitated toward it. This brings less variety, creativity and originality. In other words ... show some backbone and really put in some effort to put your own twist on how you think things should be done for YOUR program.

Effectiveness of the performers

• COMMUNICATION - Intepretation of Music

• EMOTIONAL INTENSITY - Intepretation of Music

• NUANCES - Intepretation of Music and should be combined with Expressive effect

• EXPRESSIVE EFFECT - Intepretation of Music

• TECHNICAL EXCELLENCE AS EFFECT - DELETED BECAUSE IT"S A GIVEN

• MUSICIANSHIP AS EFFECT - DELETED BECAUSE IT"S A GIVEN

• PROFESSIONALISM - DELETED BECAUSE IT"S A GIVEN

So I guess it's all about Interpretation of Music isn't it?

1. COMMUNICATION = 10

2. EMOTIONAL INTENSITY = 10

3. EXPRESSIVE/NUANCE EFFECT = 10 ............ divide total by 3 = 10pts

I could do the same for the Visual GE Caption ... but I'm not up for it right now. I think you can see that I have a preference toward Music being the driving force behind the caption .. and not the AESTHETIC/INTELLECTUAL/EMOTIONAL QUALITIES side of things. I think everything on the existing sheets are very necessary, but the weight on each subcategory is very unclear and skewed toward the judges personal preferences. Just play great music that isn't all hacked and slashed ... and PLAY IT GREAT. That's how you should win Music GE. Again, this is heavily dependent upon the Visual matching the music in order for the Music GE to max out. To me, this is the only way things make sense.