Thoughts of a drum corps rookie fan

[Tito John]

I hadn't even heard of drum corps until last fall, when my kid started watching videos and eventually asked me if he could try out. His high school band director and assistant are drum corps alumni, and they encouraged him. The boy had a wonderful time; he learned a lot about overcoming adversity and sticking to a project when all he really wanted to do was come back home.

I caught shows at four venues, including the quarters and semis in Indianapolis. The quality of those shows overall just blew me away.

But as a competition, it's as exciting as watching paint dry. For the most part, corps leave where they came in, and moving up or down one place is a Big Deal.

I don't know all that much about the judging standards, but I'm really scratching my head about the uniformity in scores. For example, it's very rare that a corps is ranked differently in a single competition across the captions. For the most part, the scores are either the same across the board or differ by one place. Does it really make sense that a corps (for example) is 7th in visual effects, 7th in music, 7th in drum line, 7th in percussion, 7th in color guard? That sounds very screwy to me. It appears to be impossible for a corps to catch fire one night and get a score well above their average, and it also seems difficult for a score to be dragged down dramatically if a corps just had a bad night. Watching from the nosebleed seats at Lucas Oil Stadium (great seats for DCI shows!) at the semis, I saw a fair number of quite ragged lines in some of the sets of the highest-ranked corps -- more than in some of the performances by the lower-ranked corps -- but you'd never know it by looking at the scores.

I haven't been able to find enough data in one place to finish this project, but I've been looking at the standard deviation of scores in DCI and other judged sports like figure skating, gymnastics and the like. The little bit of data I've been able to crunch shows that the standard deviation of scores in those sports is a lot greater than the standard deviation of the DCI judging. I'm not going to assert that such is the case, because I haven't found enough data on the Internet. But I have a suspicion in the back of my mind that by mid-summer there's a consensus among the judges as to who's going to be ranked where by the time the cook trucks start rolling for Indy, and it's really not possible for a corps to "bust the curve."

All that's not to say that I'm sour on drum corps, because the shows are really spectacular. Some of the themes are a lot more accessible than others, but I enjoy them all. While there is indeed an obvious difference between the performances of the top few corps and the ones in the middle or bottom, they're all good. I'm just not as interested in following the progress of the corps over the summer as I am in looking at the baseball standings. Ball clubs do move up and down.

I'll buy a ticket when there's a competition nearby, enjoy the live shows and leave it at that.

We didn't stay for the finals; our son's corps didn't make the cut, we had already seen the shows twice and the kid wanted to sleep in his own bed.

Watching 22 corps perform in one sitting on Thursday was probably too much of a good thing even for some die-hard fans, but we had a good time.

[Tom Brace]

I hadn't even heard of drum corps until last fall, when my kid started watching videos and eventually asked me if he could try out. His high school band director and assistant are drum corps alumni, and they encouraged him. The boy had a wonderful time; he learned a lot about overcoming adversity and sticking to a project when all he really wanted to do was come back home.

I caught shows at four venues, including the quarters and semis in Indianapolis. The quality of those shows overall just blew me away.

But as a competition, it's as exciting as watching paint dry. For the most part, corps leave where they came in, and moving up or down one place is a Big Deal.

I don't know all that much about the judging standards, but I'm really scratching my head about the uniformity in scores. For example, it's very rare that a corps is ranked differently in a single competition across the captions. For the most part, the scores are either the same across the board or differ by one place. Does it really make sense that a corps (for example) is 7th in visual effects, 7th in music, 7th in drum line, 7th in percussion, 7th in color guard? That sounds very screwy to me. It appears to be impossible for a corps to catch fire one night and get a score well above their average, and it also seems difficult for a score to be dragged down dramatically if a corps just had a bad night. Watching from the nosebleed seats at Lucas Oil Stadium (great seats for DCI shows!) at the semis, I saw a fair number of quite ragged lines in some of the sets of the highest-ranked corps -- more than in some of the performances by the lower-ranked corps -- but you'd never know it by looking at the scores.

I haven't been able to find enough data in one place to finish this project, but I've been looking at the standard deviation of scores in DCI and other judged sports like figure skating, gymnastics and the like. The little bit of data I've been able to crunch shows that the standard deviation of scores in those sports is a lot greater than the standard deviation of the DCI judging. I'm not going to assert that such is the case, because I haven't found enough data on the Internet. But I have a suspicion in the back of my mind that by mid-summer there's a consensus among the judges as to who's going to be ranked where by the time the cook trucks start rolling for Indy, and it's really not possible for a corps to "bust the curve."

All that's not to say that I'm sour on drum corps, because the shows are really spectacular. Some of the themes are a lot more accessible than others, but I enjoy them all. While there is indeed an obvious difference between the performances of the top few corps and the ones in the middle or bottom, they're all good. I'm just not as interested in following the progress of the corps over the summer as I am in looking at the baseball standings. Ball clubs do move up and down.

I'll buy a ticket when there's a competition nearby, enjoy the live shows and leave it at that.

We didn't stay for the finals; our son's corps didn't make the cut, we had already seen the shows twice and the kid wanted to sleep in his own bed.

Watching 22 corps perform in one sitting on Thursday was probably too much of a good thing even for some die-hard fans, but we had a good time.

great comments.

Yeah, scoring is one of those areas we banter around all the time...probably someone is still upset about some of thr 1972 scores. Great to have you along for the ride! Welcome to drum corps. Hold on tight. It's a great ride while it lasts.

[Sportster]

Good example of what you're talking about. Phantom was every bit as good as the highest corps both in brass and percussion and they were in 9th,which I find completely absurd. DCI politics at work. You would assume corps work to improve their shows and fix what judges may see,so scores should vary much more than they do....

[soccerguy315]

uh oh... even the new drum corps fans can tell there is slotting

glad you enjoyed your first season! hopefully your kid had a good time and will march again =)

I think you will find that most (if not all) corps work to perfect their show, and let the numbers fall where they may. If the kids marching let numbers define their season, most would come home unhappy.

Edited August 10, 2009 by soccerguy315

[Northern Thunder]

probably someone is still upset about some of their 1972 scores.

Garfield Cadets at 1972 DCI prelims.

[Gaddabout]

Good example of what you're talking about. Phantom was every bit as good as the highest corps both in brass and percussion and they were in 9th,which I find completely absurd. DCI politics at work. You would assume corps work to improve their shows and fix what judges may see,so scores should vary much more than they do....

I had the same observation and I'm by no means a PR groupie. Thought PR's brass was as good as BD's and almost as good as Crown's. Battery was awesome. Show was just good in general. I don't know what was weighing them down, but I felt they had a Top 5 show that finished 9th.

[DCImonkey]

Yeah I always wondered why certain captions work out the way they do? At least the Top 5 this year the caption rankings were all over the map. But looking on down the list it is highly incredible that a corps can be ranked in the same spot in every caption across the board. Seems highly improbable.

[Mason Dixon]

Welcome to the activity, and I respect and agree quite a bit with your observations. I love the individual performances, but expecting "any given Sunday" in drum corps is not likely.

[jplattSCV]

Welcome to the activity, and I respect and agree quite a bit with your observations. I love the individual performances, but expecting "any given Sunday" in drum corps is not likely.

It would be tremendously more interesting though if there were reasonable possibilities of scores changing from one night to the next. I've always thought that. I offer no solutions, but I can dream anyway.

What was the point of the three nights this time, other than the opporunity to kick Phantom in the teeth a couple more times. They are the only ones who really made a move. Still trying to figure out exactly what was wrong with their show. I will likely listen to it more than any other show when the CD's come out.

Maybe the judging criteria is too specific now. Its impossible to believe that all 12 finalist corps performed to the same relative level each night. Somebody had an off night. Somebody was on. But, the placements were virtually identical every night even down to the captions. Obviously, there were a few notable exceptions. Ask an HNC drummer what he thinks of the scoring? Remove the outliers and the remaining results pretty much prove that the show design is all that matters by the time you get to August. All the corps are talented enough to sell their respective products by then. The kids are just tools and the focus is taken off of them. That seems wrong to me.

[glory]

I realize it doesn't dispute the major point, but Cadet's percussion score Saturday deviated substantially from the previous two days' and was the difference between Cadets placing overall in second and their ultimate third. That is, had they scored on Saturday in percussion as they did Thursday and Friday, Cadets would have been in second place, not Crown. So it's not as if the scores are locked in.

I share the same mystification of most at the apparent consistency of the scores between captions. It seems to defy logic that the sixth-place corps would be consistently around sixth in every caption. Yet in total, I seldom disagree with the judges on the ultimate outcome. I think that's generally the case with most fans. We say Corps A could have placed higher. Yet we are at a loss to decide which corps to downgrade to accommodate Corps A's step up.

As for Phantom, there was much to admire. The problem is there is much to admire from the B's too (Blue Stars, Boston and Bluecoats). I'm not prepared to move any of them down to move Phantom higher.

HH