wk2w Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 The day we understand judges, men will understand women. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 Good example of what you're talking about. Phantom was every bit as good as the highest corps both in brass and percussion and they were in 9th,which I find completely absurd. DCI politics at work. You would assume corps work to improve their shows and fix what judges may see,so scores should vary much more than they do.... LOL! Right on!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soccerguy315 Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 well, this wasn't apparently the case with a certain snare drummer from HNC. He WAS the focus on finals night. So, the kids and their performances do matter. More than tools. People make drum corps happen and people make mistakes. surely you will agree that falling down and causing issues does not happen very often; the cadets incident was the exception rather than the rule. I think the execution between (for example) BD and Phantom this year was much closer than their show design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plan9 Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 I had the same observation and I'm by no means a PR groupie. Thought PR's brass was as good as BD's and almost as good as Crown's. Battery was awesome. Show was just good in general. I don't know what was weighing them down, but I felt they had a Top 5 show that finished 9th. I used to wonder this same thing back when I followed Spirit and Boston. In 2008 Spirits drum line was clearly many levels above their show design (as was Boston) but they were attached to a show that couldn't compete with the top 5. IMO (though strictly pedestrian) with a few exceptions, captions are used to adjust/confirm corps within tiers, for instance BD 2008 and Cadets 2009. In short, the show has to work first (which is wrapped in Visual , music and GE), then find its competitive level, then the captions adjust depending on performance any given night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hrothgar15 Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 I had the same observation and I'm by no means a PR groupie. Thought PR's brass was as good as BD's and almost as good as Crown's. Battery was awesome. Show was just good in general. I don't know what was weighing them down, but I felt they had a Top 5 show that finished 9th. I'll never, ever understand what happened with Phantom Regiment 2009 as far as judging was concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Brace Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 surely you will agree that falling down and causing issues does not happen very often; the cadets incident was the exception rather than the rule.I think the execution between (for example) BD and Phantom this year was much closer than their show design. I cannot answer the question. I did not witness both groups in the same contest setting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musiclover1 Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 As for Phantom, there was much to admire. The problem is there is much to admire from the B's too (Blue Stars, Boston and Bluecoats). I'm not prepared to move any of them down to move Phantom higher. HH Don't you think there was A LOT of focus on what Phantom was doing wrong and A LOT of focus on what the Bs were doing right? I think this thought process drove their score down. Regardless, slotting is evident in this sport... too bad. i try not to focus on the scores, but they affect everyone's opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corps-mudgeon Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 Don't you think there was A LOT of focus on what Phantom was doing wrong and A LOT of focus on what the Bs were doing right? I think this thought process drove their score down.Regardless, slotting is evident in this sport... too bad. i try not to focus on the scores, but they affect everyone's opinion. If there was slotting going on, do you really think that PR would be slotted 7-9? Or if they were 8th in quarters and semis that they'd be 9th in finals? I'd say PR's results in competition this past season is one of the biggest arguments against slotting I've ever seen. And for that matter, the drop in HNC's percussion scores in finals is a great argument that performance really counts. I tend to be a bit of a cynic myself about judging, but finals this year reassured me a little bit that the judges actually DO pay attention to what's on the field. The bottom line is that PR's guard and visual pulled them down and not even the good music scores, percussion in particular, could make up for it. And Blue Stars visual and guard pulled them up. That was the difference. PR brass and percussion rankings were pretty close to where they belonged, IMO. Who was improperly placed ahead of them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob984 Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Good example of what you're talking about. Phantom was every bit as good as the highest corps both in brass and percussion and they were in 9th,which I find completely absurd. DCI politics at work. You would assume corps work to improve their shows and fix what judges may see,so scores should vary much more than they do.... You are so right.....maybe Phantom didn't have the greatest visual package this year, but their musical package (brass and percussion) could hang with anyone..............there is no serious caption integrity anymore.........all I know is there are 3 corps in the top 6 that can't hold a candle to what Phantom plays (and how they play it) in brass..........and the musical effect caption is really a joke..... GB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexL Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 You are so right.....maybe Phantom didn't have the greatest visual package this year, but their musical package (brass and percussion) could hang with anyone..............there is no serious caption integrity anymore.........all I know is there are 3 corps in the top 6 that can't hold a candle to what Phantom plays (and how they play it) in brass..........and the musical effect caption is really a joke.....GB there are definitely some interesting things in the recaps... the one i particularly love is how no matter how things are coming in, caption placements tend to converge towards that corps overall placement by finals night. If the corps was 11th in percussion but 3rd in guard, and everything else was 7th, youll see those 2 outliers move closer in towards that 7 spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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