Publicly trashing your own corps

[rut-roh]

This is a subject I have always found interesting. It goes along with the notion some corps have about asking their members not to post on DCP or other online forums, but really it has to do with (I think) loyalty and betrayal, not to the corps per se, although there is some of that in there, but to those you march with.

Every corps tries to do the best they can for their members. Some corps have been better at it than others, but I can't think of any corps who deliberately sets out to give their members a horrible experience. I do believe that every person who marches in a corps has the right to have opinions about how their corps is run, whether it involves how the corps gets down the road, how they are fed or generally treated, the quality of the show and instruction they are given, to what they are asked to pay to be involved with it. I guess my beef is with those current members who feel compelled to publicly criticize their own corps on forums such as these, overwhelmingly (but not always) done anonymously, though it's usually pretty easy to figure out where they marched.

My questions to those people would be, are you so openly critical of your corps while you're on tour with them? Or do these criticisms only come out behind the (sometimes anonymous) comfort of a computer screen and keyboard? If you're not this openly critical while on the road or under their direct care, why not? What benefit do you see in openly criticizing your own corps online? Wouldn't it serve your corps better to air your grievances directly to those who can actually address those concerns? Do you think about how your corps is perceived by others when you publicize your criticisms, and does it bother you if people form generally unfavorable opinions about your corps because of statements or criticisms you've made about them as a current member?

[soccerguy315]

I don't know if this directly addresses your post, but I have some thoughts I am willing to share on the subject.

First, in the two years that I marched, one of the biggest things was "take care of your house." Meaning, know your dots, know where you are going, know your music, etc. While you all work together, you worry about yourself. After practice, if you sit down with people to help each other with music, cool. But during practice, you do your thing. You worry about your music. It is not your job to tell the person next to you that they are a step off their dot, or their intervals are iffy on part of a certain drill move, or that a note they play is out of tune.

One of the years that I marched, the horn line was facing backfield spread across at least 70 yards. We had a 4 count turn to face front field, and halfway through the turn, we had a half note pickup into the next phrase. At one rehearsal, sometime in late July, or possibly early August, the staff cut the note, I think during ensemble rehearsal. It went like this:

tower: horn line, that half note is out

horn line: aww / ugh

tower: HEY. We tell you what to play, and you play it. Got it?

horn line: got it

no one in the horn line shouted that they were upset, they just kinda sighed out loud to themselves, but so many of them did it, that it was heard in the tower. Basically, when you're on tour, you do whatever the staff (/admin) tells you to do, whether you agree with it or not. Your only job is to do what they tell you to do to the best of your ability. That said, people do say things sometimes. I have personally gone up to the staff to request more water breaks (we were a gush 'n' go corps) in the afternoon block after getting 1 during the ~3 hour morning block in Texas.

Second, there isn't really a time to talk about your views on design aspect type stuff. So, on this message board, you can discuss things and bounce ideas off other people. Chances your corps director will have a 1 on 1 meeting with you about design? Probably zero. Chances you can discuss show design on DCP, both the pros and cons? Pretty high. Is it bad for a current marching members to be exposed to the opinions of others on what was successful and what was not successful regarding the show that they marched?

Third, I don't know how many corps did this, but I filled one each year when I marched... end of year surveys. There was space to rate all the staff and admin members and share your thoughts on the summer. So, if the corps does this, the views expressed on DCP my current marching members have probably been shared with the corps through the survey.

Fourth, each drum corps is a business. They cater to their consumers. The consumers pay ~$3000 for the services of the corps (provided a show, instruction, food, etc). When consumers aren't happy with the services that they received in exchange for their money, they share their feelings. The same reason people are complaining on DCP that they paid $100+ for a seat at finals that was on the 5 yard line. Does it bother you that maybe some people will come by this forum and get a bad opinion of the way that DCI runs finals and based on what is posted here, will choose not to go, thus hurting the activity?

Edited August 15, 2009 by soccerguy315

[3rd_Star_Brigade]

Some DCI directors take this very seriously. I know of one that makes it his business to suppress alumni opinion and thoughts on all that is DCI. He actually takes people's opinions personally.

My feelings on this person- "Go to Russia. DCI is an American activity."

Edited August 16, 2009 by 3rd_Star_Brigade

[silvertrombone]

Wow, you'd think this thread was written for me!

Two thoughts:

1.) Both years I marched, both corps I marched there were more talented rookies than vets. The vets were not leaders, they were detrimental to the corps. In 94, Phantom literally sat 28 people down in NC and told them to straighten up and fly right. Mostly jerks who thought they were something cuz they marched 93. Big deal. Put up or shut up. When rookies play and march better than you, do more of the shutting up and leave the rest to staff.

That said, staff was somewhat underwhelming both years...top down. We were definitely pushing and staff wasn't doing much to push us back either year. Disappointing.

So as far as when I was marching, bad-mouthing "my" corps wasn't necessary...didn't have time, for one thing. Rehearse, rehearse, rehearse. Laundry day here and there, off day couple times, back to rehearse. Course, we didn't have the Internet yet either.

2.) As for today, all's fair. DCI and individual DC's have a #### poor record on the operations side. So deal with it. Don't like someone in your business analyzing how poorly you've done your job? Then get the freak out of the way...we'll find someone else. Keep doing it poorly? We'll do the getting out of the way, thanks.

I don't have money, sorry. What I do have is a decent mind. And a decent education in two fields that are relevant to DC and DCI. So I offer my commentary here and in other ways. Seems to be working. People of like mind with me have said the same things often enough that we can compare the music of 2009 with 2006 and say that it is MUCH improved, and I would like to think that's cuz people like me said it needed to change, and we said it enough that someone started listening. Of course, horses and Romans didn't hurt our argument either.

So if rut-roh and others dislike people like me "bad-mouthing" corps, all I have to say is...deal with it. There's plenty to criticize. When the only thing I have to criticize is on the field, I'll shut up. LONG way from that, though.

Note: Were I to be hired by DCI or an individual DC, I'd be a pretty big snot in terms of pointing fingers at those who need fingers pointed at them. I'm an efficiency freak, and there's a LOT of room for criticism on that topic in this activity historically. I mean, look around the parking lot at your typical show. One food trailer PER CORPS?? I mean...REALLY?!? Just one example.

And if pointing out that music organizations are doing a poor job of business side stuff is dissing a corps, oh well. The musicians need to learn how to run the businesses that they run. Most who are around today do a good enough job. But not all.

[silvertrombone]

Some DCI directors take this very seriously. I know of one that makes it his business to suppress alumni opinion and thoughts on all that is DCI. He actually takes people's opinions personally.

My feelings on this person- "Go to Russia. DCI is an American activity."

Mind sharing? Best way to make bad apples go away is to expose them to the light. PM me if you don't want to post name or organization.

Given the talent of the alumni of DC, this is disappointing. Given the history of corps going away, it is not surprising.

[rut-roh]

People have misinterpreted what I'm asking, and frankly, I've already lost interest in knowing what people think about it. Mods, as author of the post, please close the thread. Thanks.

[brassmeaway]

or maybe that voicing an issue/idea on here is a good way to gauge the community's general opinion on it

and like soccerguy said, if enough customers have the same gripe, it should be addressed

besides, i really don't think a member has come on here and destroyed the entire corps as a whole ... its usually a staff member or design choice

this activity is not North Korea, there ARE truths and opinions that should be heard ... both good and bad

[Cathie Wiener]

<edit for length>

And if pointing out that music organizations are doing a poor job of business side stuff is dissing a corps, oh well. The musicians need to learn how to run the businesses that they run. Most who are around today do a good enough job. But not all.

This a million times over!!

[Lance]

Closed at author's request.