What happened to matched grip?

[Jim Nevermann]

Twenty years ago I don't think that many people were as self-aware on the issue

That's because in 1989 --20 years ago-- personal computers, much less the Internet, didn't remotely have today's near-universal presence. And who, back then, would have had the slightest, tinniest idea of what "texting", "Facebook" or "YouTube" were to be?

Edited September 1, 2009 by Jim Nevermann

[mobrien]

I think it would be interesting to go back and interview folks from that era to get a complete picture of what was going on. It's long been my impression that Tony Cirone -- a legendary concert percussionist -- had this massive impact on drum corps without ever participating. His program produced Fred Sanford, and it sort of fans out from there is all kinds of impressive, breath-taking ways. And with Hardimon taking over SCV with their classical regimen ... you start to get a picture of a serious matched-grip movement as harnesses are introduced, I think.

I think that's a fair assessment. Sanford's rationale when SCV switched to matched grip in '77 was that there was nowhere else in the percussion world where trad grip had any place, and purely from a drum corps context, having matched grip on every instrument in the line made for a seamless progression from one instrument to the next (back in the day when a guy would spend 5 years in one line, moving up an instrument each year...).

The local band program here teaches matched grip to every entry level percussionist, and my impression is that most other programs are the same. One of my kids likes to play snare trad grip (or at least, he likes to try the grip out), but outside of drum corps and guys who want to play in jazz settings (where I'd argue trad is a much better choice than matched, the underhand grip lending itself to comping better than the "Bam Bam" grip, to my taste), I'm not sure that there IS much of a place for trad grip.

Edited September 1, 2009 by mobrien

[pearlsnaredrummer77]

I think it would be interesting to go back and interview folks from that era to get a complete picture of what was going on. It's long been my impression that Tony Cirone -- a legendary concert percussionist -- had this massive impact on drum corps without ever participating. His program produced Fred Sanford, and it sort of fans out from there is all kinds of impressive, breath-taking ways. And with Hardimon taking over SCV with their classical regimen ... you start to get a picture of a serious matched-grip movement as harnesses are introduced, I think.

Anyway, I find the history (and resulting impact) more interesting than the actual debate of matched vs. traditional. I am however pleased most of us seem to recognize the decision is almost universally an emotional, aesthetic one. Twenty years ago I don't think that many people were as self-aware on the issue and it seemed like everyone had decided one was better than the other. Pick a side and draw your weapon. LOL

It seems there were a couple of "centers" of matched grip drumming, Sanford in the West, Dr. Mike Kumer in the east (Finleyville Royal Crusaders and then Dean of the Duquesne Univ. School of Music). By the time I started drumming in the late 70s matched grip was nearly universal in Western PA as both (then) major DCI corps GBV) were matched. So for along time, it seemed to me that traditional looked weird and was old-fashioned. Over time, I began to like the elegance of the traditional grip. My larger point is that you become used to a certain style or culture and it becomes the norm.

[Gaddabout]

but outside of drum corps and guys who want to play in jazz settings (where I'd argue trad is a much better choice than matched, the underhand grip lending itself to comping better than the "Bam Bam" grip, to my taste), I'm not sure that there IS much of a place for trad grip.

I think you'd have a fight on your hands with guys like Ari Hoenig if you repeated that in New York.

[mobrien]

I think you'd have a fight on your hands with guys like Ari Hoenig if you repeated that in New York.

I like Hoenig's stuff in the same way that I think much of Kotche's stuff is cool, but neither of them are in the tradition of jazz trio or big band drumming (the style I was referencing re: the advantage of the underhand grip in jazz drumming - I probably should have been clearer in the reference point).

[Gaddabout]

I like Hoenig's stuff in the same way that I think much of Kotche's stuff is cool, but neither of them are in the tradition of jazz trio or big band drumming (the style I was referencing re: the advantage of the underhand grip in jazz drumming - I probably should have been clearer in the reference point).

Still not understanding. All Hoenig does is jazz trio. He has his own. He played in one with Scofield. I don't think I'm out on a limb to suggest he's the world's preeminent small combo drummer right now in the bop tradition. He looks like he's had a horrible back accident when he sits behind the kit, but he's an undeniable world-class swinger who uses matched grip.

[Jim Nevermann]

Still not understanding. All Hoenig does is jazz trio.

YouTube links? I've not heard of him.

[Gaddabout]

YouTube links? I've not heard of him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BA8Qy-wqirw...feature=related

[Quadman1]

The choice of grip is purely aesthetic.

I prefer matched grip, both aesthetically and for instructional purposes.

Had a kid show up to a rehearsal, he was center snare at his high school. Really sloppy left hand. I had him switch to matched grip and instantly his playing improved dramatically. Far too many schools have directors who are horn players and don't know squat about percussion, so the instruction these kids get is horrid--particularly when dealing with the left hand in traditional grip. I don't have time to straighten out the messes and build that left hand in traditional grip when a switch to matched obviates the need and looks better.

The only time I've taught traditional grip was for use with a period reenactment group. We were strapping on side drums and traditional grip was required to play them. In that situation, one has to take the time to clean up left hand messes.

Agree 100%. If the first military field drums had been carried level with harnesses instead of tilted with straps, it is possible that "traditional" grip might never have been developed. Matched grip is the natural way to play, and traditional is selected (in drum corps and marching band) for the aesthetic factor. But don't tell me that the 1978 or 1979 SCV snare lines weren't "bad ###". The 1979 Vanguard drum line still ranks as one of the finest units ever put on the field. Remember, Fred and Ralph did things differently, such as having the timpanists play double stroke roll patterns along with the rest of the line. As a quad and snare player, I see this quite easily, but perhaps it is more difficult for those who have known only traditional grip on the snare drum to grasp the concept. I only miss the variety of styles that used to permeate the activity. Everything is rather monotonous by comparison today.

[TAFL]

He looks like he's had a horrible back accident when he sits behind the kit, but he's an undeniable world-class swinger who uses matched grip.

Straight from the bell tower of Notre Dame to a gig near you...

If I hunched over a kit like that for an entire set, I'd likely never be able to walk upright again!