Here we go!

[frontline99]

So what does this mean? Is BDB too good for Open Class or is open class just eroding?

[PurpleKnights]

So what does this mean? Is BDB too good for Open Class or is open class just eroding?

A little of both. BDB and SCVC have the advantages of a much larger and more stable infrastructure and all that entails, and a much more attractive brand than any other Open Class corps. They are also permanently removed from the natural cycle of progressing to World Class when they get good enough to compete at the next level. Corps like Teal Sound and Jersey Surf become big fish and leave the small pond ASAP because of the huge financial incentives to do so, and so will any other corps that can. It's not that BDB and SCVC (who would likely be in 2nd right now if they were going east this year) can't be beaten, it's more that every team that can beat them will get out of town the next year, and there are less corps left to challenge them these days.

Other corps are doing their best to challenge the feeder corps (I recognize that they aren't just feeder corps and have their own identities and blablablabla) but many of them have natural disadvantages that they're struggling to overcome. Oregon, for example, is in an environment with a small population, a nearby World Class corps that is hurting for members, an extreme lack of knowledge of / interest in the activity, severely affected by the recession, and can't start all-days until after June 14th because of the public schools and universities there. BDB and SCVC are part of decades-old organizations that have survived because they're resistant to those disadvantages. With smart management, these corps can eventually beat the feeder corps, but if they can maintain that success they will bolt to WC in a New York minute.

So yes, in a way, Open Class is eroding. There are not enough corps to replace the ones that bolt. Most of the corps are struggling. Even now, what corps look like they could rise to WC in the next few years? Do any?

[rayfallon]

A little of both. BDB and SCVC have the advantages of a much larger and more stable infrastructure and all that entails, and a much more attractive brand than any other Open Class corps. They are also permanently removed from the natural cycle of progressing to World Class when they get good enough to compete at the next level. Corps like Teal Sound and Jersey Surf become big fish and leave the small pond ASAP because of the huge financial incentives to do so, and so will any other corps that can. It's not that BDB and SCVC (who would likely be in 2nd right now if they were going east this year) can't be beaten, it's more that every team that can beat them will get out of town the next year, and there are less corps left to challenge them these days.

Other corps are doing their best to challenge the feeder corps (I recognize that they aren't just feeder corps and have their own identities and blablablabla) but many of them have natural disadvantages that they're struggling to overcome. Oregon, for example, is in an environment with a small population, a nearby World Class corps that is hurting for members, an extreme lack of knowledge of / interest in the activity, severely affected by the recession, and can't start all-days until after June 14th because of the public schools and universities there. BDB and SCVC are part of decades-old organizations that have survived because they're resistant to those disadvantages. With smart management, these corps can eventually beat the feeder corps, but if they can maintain that success they will bolt to WC in a New York minute.

So yes, in a way, Open Class is eroding. There are not enough corps to replace the ones that bolt. Most of the corps are struggling. Even now, what corps look like they could rise to WC in the next few years? Do any?

I'm only going to take exception to one particular in your post, which I consider to be well thought out and well written - it is the reference to "their own identities and blablablabla"). This really isn't just corps-speak (their separate identities). There are kids aging out of both of these corps, perhaps more than many other Open Class corps. There is esprit de corps that is specifically for their corps. There's not escaping the love that binds the World Class and Open Class (and in BD's case the "C" corps) but these really and truly are separate organizations with separate identities. I think it does both the World and the Open Class, plus the parent organizations, of these two groups, a disservice to refer to either as a feeder corps.

But that's just me.

Edited August 7, 2010 by rayfallon

[rayfallon]

Don't think so. This was what I brought up last week regarding the corps that had a solid weeks worth of practice or have been touring before the last Open Class Push as they head to Michigan City. BDB has been out touring. Revo Has been doing more shows and having full day practices and the Raiders just wrapped up thier 1 week, morning till night camp. These corps have an edge over a corps that practiced this weekend and then hit the road. We'll see, I think no matter what there will be a nice dog fight for 2nd and third.

It will be decided where it should be - on the field. The kids seem to be having a really good time out there. that's (7th) a corps with a lot of heart - I guess they all have a lot of heart don't they?

Good group anyway. Maybe great. Time will tell.

[ajwdad]

A little of both. BDB and SCVC have the advantages of a much larger and more stable infrastructure and all that entails, and a much more attractive brand than any other Open Class corps. They are also permanently removed from the natural cycle of progressing to World Class when they get good enough to compete at the next level. Corps like Teal Sound and Jersey Surf become big fish and leave the small pond ASAP because of the huge financial incentives to do so, and so will any other corps that can. It's not that BDB and SCVC (who would likely be in 2nd right now if they were going east this year) can't be beaten, it's more that every team that can beat them will get out of town the next year, and there are less corps left to challenge them these days.

Other corps are doing their best to challenge the feeder corps (I recognize that they aren't just feeder corps and have their own identities and blablablabla) but many of them have natural disadvantages that they're struggling to overcome. Oregon, for example, is in an environment with a small population, a nearby World Class corps that is hurting for members, an extreme lack of knowledge of / interest in the activity, severely affected by the recession, and can't start all-days until after June 14th because of the public schools and universities there. BDB and SCVC are part of decades-old organizations that have survived because they're resistant to those disadvantages. With smart management, these corps can eventually beat the feeder corps, but if they can maintain that success they will bolt to WC in a New York minute.

So yes, in a way, Open Class is eroding. There are not enough corps to replace the ones that bolt. Most of the corps are struggling. Even now, what corps look like they could rise to WC in the next few years? Do any?

Good points. Here are some more. There are a bunch of world class corps that just don't compete for titles. So, my question is why is that division so large? For instance, Teal was a very good OC Core. Jersey Surf, same comment. I could name a lot more, but, both Teal and Surf were OC very recently. And they are not going to compete with the top 5 in WC for titles anytime very soon.

As for BDB, they just started competing in finals in the last 5 years. Certainly, they have done well, but they have won exactly 1 title, and look to win their second this year. SCVC has won 2 times... one as Div II and once as OC. So, while the comments articulated above are true, they also have only been true for the last 3 or so years.

As for a solution, make the money as good for OC and WC. And don't let anyone bolt before they have at least won a title. But, DCI has other priorities.

[Madrid]

But, DCI has other priorities.

and what other priorities are more important than making sure that all corps are treated well and get the exposure that they need in order to survive year-to-year, regardless of class.

[PurpleKnights]

Good points. Here are some more. There are a bunch of world class corps that just don't compete for titles. So, my question is why is that division so large?

$$$. A lot of corps that have had no real business in World Class competitively--2009 Cascades is a prime example--probably couldn't have fielded as an Open Class corps without the money from the tour and without the draw for members that the larger tour brings.

and what other priorities are more important than making sure that all corps are treated well and get the exposure that they need in order to survive year-to-year, regardless of class.

$$$.

Corps that beat BDB/SCVC at finals in last 5 years:

2010:

Likely no one

2009:

No one

2008:

No one

2007:

Jersey Surf - Now in WC

Teal Sound - Now in WC

Spartans - Applied for WC, suffered setbacks after that year, now rebuilding

2006:

The Academy - Now in WC

East Coast Jazz - Folded

Spartans - See above

Oregon Crusaders - Suffered setbacks after that year, now rebuilding.

2005 was the Boston year and neither corps made it out, but Blue Stars were in the mix that year, as well as Fever and Impulse. I haven't been paying a ton of attention but I haven't seem those two corps around lately.

[Calistar]

<snip> With smart management, these corps can eventually beat the feeder corps, but if they can maintain that success they will bolt to WC in a New York minute.

So yes, in a way, Open Class is eroding. There are not enough corps to replace the ones that bolt. Most of the corps are struggling. Even now, what corps look like they could rise to WC in the next few years? Do any?

Yeah, I see what you are saying and I agree with most of it...however, one point that I would like to make is that although these are "feeder" corps, they operate more independantly than many people think. Plus they have smart management of their own. In BDB's case, they have the wisdom of Rick Odello. You don't get much smarter or knowledgeable than him. BDB has gotten better for five straight years and unless there is a drastic change in the Open Class/World Class format, I don't see that trend ending anytime soon. Right now, BDB and SCVC are in a league of their own and we may be seeing large point spreads in August for years to come.

Cali.

[CrunchyTenor]

The biggest challenge to BDB and SCVC is financial. With BD's recent threat of another bingo operation opening down the street, and possble loss of revenue, where would the BD organization have cut first? Personally, I think the A, B and C corps are the Golden Children, and the Diablo Wind Symphony or one or more of the other programs would have felt the knife first. But that is merely my opinion, so consider it in that light.

California is being hit harder with foreclosures, unemployment, etc., in this economy than most states. While kids may still come from all over the country to march in the BD and SCV organizations, how long can they fund these different entities?

Garry in Vegas

Edited August 8, 2010 by CrunchyTenor

[argonaut]

Top 12 ranking as of 8/8

1. Blue Devils B 92.81

2. Oregon Crusaders 85.96

3. Revolution 85.46

4. Spartans 84.49

5. Vanguard Cadets 83.94

6. Raiders 83.23

7. 7th Regiment 82.2

8. Legends 81.57

9. Music City 81.26

10. Genesis 80.03

11. Colt Cadets 79.51

12. Forte 78.88

Quite a battle for 2nd and third place.