Dear Blue Devils,

[WOOHOO]

I agree (with the eye of the beholder part). It's pretty hard to come up with a definitive notion of what innovation means this activity. Oftentimes we simply apply the term to things we like. I'm as guilty of doing that as anyone else. But the idea of innovation interests me, which is why I like to discuss it. I'm not trying to pick a fight or put anyone down.

Oh, I was preferring to the 2000s Cavies. 2000-2004 especially, as well as 06 (and 99, IMO). 05 wasn't so bad either. The Billy Joel show was a sure sign that formula was growing state. They may have hit on something at least partially new this year. We'll see.

I tend to think, by definition, innovation IS borrowing. In all fields of art, all breakthroughs of new styles are simply restatements of what has happened in the past. The best, most effective artists find many different influences from as many fields as possible to put out the best product they can. That seems to be what BD is doing right now.

[Spartans87]

WOW! Reading this topic just sucked the life out of me.....except for Photographer Jim's remarks. Thanks for sharing those!

Mike

Spartans '87

The Foundation Year

Proud Father of a Hurricane Trumpet, 2010 -

[Photographer Jim]

WOW! Reading this topic just sucked the life out of me.....except for Photographer Jim's remarks. Thanks for sharing those!

Mike

Spartans '87

The Foundation Year

Proud Father of a Hurricane Trumpet, 2010 -

I AM NOT A VAMPIRE

Edited August 24, 2010 by Photographer Jim

[JamMan]

Probably, but they'll need to do something new. one problem to being a multiple time in a row champ is that the first year you may do something entirely new and run with it....the 2nd year you do it again and are still ahead of the others...but by the 3rd year they've caught up to you....Garfield 83-85 comes to mind.

I thought about this, too. I completely agreed until I thought of '87. Was it that different than '83-'85? I don't think so. Same formula, just a slightly different mix of arrangers, instructors.

And then Cavies '00-'04 had a formula that worked well. Then they struck out in '05 (get it?), but really nailed it out of the park with '06. Again, same formula, different mix of arrangers and instructors.

The Blue Devils currently have a formula that I thoroughly enjoy and can't wait to see how it pans out in the future!

[WestCoaster]

I thought about this, too. I completely agreed until I thought of '87. Was it that different than '83-'85? I don't think so. Same formula, just a slightly different mix of arrangers, instructors.

That's an interesting point. For me, I always thought of it as a "last gasp" of their winning formula which sort of died in 86 but they resurrected it somehow (and just barely...they lost all year and if someone flipped a coin differently they'd have lost (or else get the judges all together to max out the drumline score lol).

IN any case, it wasn't nearly as definitive (though a fantastic show), and their weaknesses were showing. The next year they took a solid fourth again, followed by a fifth place retooling effort (which was ENTIRELY different from the old formula) and even 90 was somewhat different even though it WAS a "best of" sort of show...much like BD in their transitional years, they were moving on to a different formula at that point (BD 92 strikes me as a sort of a throwback in those transitional years, much like Cadets 90 seemed to be).

Edited August 24, 2010 by WestCoaster

[Photographer Jim]

I'm not trying to insult BD by saying they have a formula. Every single drum corps dynasty has been based on a formula. Mid to late 70s BD had a formula . Mid-80s Cadets had a formula. Early 2000s Cavies had a formula. And BD is currently working with a formula. A corps hits upon a particularly inspired combination of visual and music which produces competitive success. They use this combination to keep themselves on top of the heap for a few years . . . typically 5-6. The creative well eventually starts run dry, and the formula grows stale, while at the same time another corps or group of corps catches up.

Eventually BD's formula of placing WGI inspired visual and music on a football field will run its course. Typically two scenarios are possible when this happens. One, another elite corps hits upon a different successful formula and creates a new dynasty, winning 3 or so championships in a short period of time. Or, two, several corps (probably including BD) will vie for the top spot for a few years. And yes, BD will certainly continue to win championships, but that will be a BD that has reinvented itself as it has many times before.

That's what history says will happen. Who knows what will really occur. Maybe BD's current formula will dominate DCI until doomsday. Maybe BD will go ahead and try something else, just for the hell of it. Maybe the 2011 show will be a dismal failure (not very likely). Or maybe another corps will come up with something brilliant enough to rival what BD has done this year.

I think this is a very astute and reasonable observation. It also explains why I usually chuckle inwardly when I hear people rant about the imminent "death of drum corps". Creative activities must have cycles of innovation (agree - maybe not the best word, but its working in the conversation so far) where some artist(s) strikes out to explore a creative thought line (formula, if you will), go with it as far as they are able, or until another artist takes things in another direction. Thankfully, each "formula excursion" usually provides something of value for following artists to adapt and incorporate into the next fresh new thing. It will be interesting to see what aspects of BD's recent approach are the most influential on the activity down the road.

[Plan9]

Are we still talking about drum corps? People marching and playing and spinning on a football field?

Andy Warhol, Dali, Picasso....really?

Is what BD's doing THAT radical and game-changing? Geez, I thought I was passionate about this activity BITD, but I guess I was just a casual participant.

I wasn't trying to be lofty or pretentious. I was answering a specific poster using the his same analogy format. Read the post I was answering, then ask me again.

[GMichael1230]

Guess I am one of the many that disagree. Interesting, but Cavies spectacular? Not in the last 5 years. Vanguard's show was pretty boring. So I guess that innovative is in the eye of the beholder. According to Solomon, "There is nothing new under the sun."

this

G

[GMichael1230]

At what point in this thread does the BD staff need to start reading?

Never.....

and what I understand..ahh, nevermind.

G

[GMichael1230]

That's an interesting point. For me, I always thought of it as a "last gasp" of their winning formula which sort of died in 86 but they resurrected it somehow (and just barely...they lost all year and if someone flipped a coin differently they'd have lost (or else get the judges all together to max out the drumline score lol).

IN any case, it wasn't nearly as definitive (though a fantastic show), and their weaknesses were showing. The next year they took a solid fourth again, followed by a fifth place retooling effort (which was ENTIRELY different from the old formula) and even 90 was somewhat different even though it WAS a "best of" sort of show...much like BD in their transitional years, they were moving on to a different formula at that point (BD 92 strikes me as a sort of a throwback in those transitional years, much like Cadets 90 seemed to be).

The differences from 87 to 90 were very extreme. The whole visual approach regarding movement and colorguard....its what kept them relevant and spearheaded their "re-invention"

G