If DCI were to allow woodwinds, would you continue to support the acti

[WOOHOO]

I actually respect your opinion, yet I ask: Are you convinced that the numbers are increasing due to changes made? Is there no correlation to the member limit going up and smaller corps getting smaller or disappearing altogether? Would anything actually convince you? Honest questions not intended to be pointed.

I don't think they are increasing because of the changes, but I don't think they are decreasing because of them either. I think corps getting smaller are more economy driven. I think actual facts, not hunches, would convince me.

[84skyrydr]

I don't think they are increasing because of the changes, but I don't think they are decreasing because of them either. I think corps getting smaller are more economy driven. I think actual facts, not hunches, would convince me.

Yet, a poll of drum corps fans, albeit megafans, say almost 4-1 that they would be done with DCI if ww get adopted. That is just a hunch? Honestly? Did they just lie? Or do we not get to count them?

[WOOHOO]

Yet, a poll of drum corps fans, albeit megafans, say almost 4-1 that they would be done with DCI if ww get adopted. That is just a hunch? Honestly? Did they just lie? Or do we not get to count them?

I count them as a part of the equation, just not the end all, be all solution. There are plenty of people at a show who are ambivalent or in support of ww, but never go on dcp. Should their opinion not count?

[BRASSO]

People said that when contras were added...when themed shows were added..when Bayonne donned the banana unis...when 2 and then 3 valve horns happened....etc.

Well ya... some people say Drum Corps went" wrong " even further back... when they replaced the fife with the bugle. ( who knows, maybe we'll eventually come full circle.... the" fife" afterall, IS a " woodwind " insrument ) But so what ?

The Drum Corps movement has had more changes than the IRS tax code has had the last 50 years for heavens sake. But where has it gotten us in terms of growth of Corps, fans, the activity's exposure, etc. ? THAT'S the central question. One would be hard pressed to make a compelling argument that the blizzard of changes undergone in the Drum Corps movement over the years has led to the growth of the activity, despite the clear elevation of the overall performance levels of the participants.

Edited September 10, 2010 by BRASSO

[mgarside83]

I count them as a part of the equation, just not the end all, be all solution. There are plenty of people at a show who are ambivalent or in support of ww, but never go on dcp. Should their opinion not count?

Anytime you take a survey, you will only get maybe a 30% response. And that's a very high response rate. I'm guessing, most of the people who care enough to respond, are the ones who care enough to join groups like DCP. I don't know if the audience you are referring to would be in favor of or against adding woodwinds. My guess is the responses would be a little for and a little against, but just about indifferent. In the meantime, there is a good chunk of the drum corps fan pie that is vehemently against it. Of course that's just my opinion of how it would go down, but the people who care most about the issue would def. have the highest response rate. So the results, in my estimation, would probably not differ that much from the results you see on DCP. Perhaps slightly less against adding ww, but most likely still against nonetheless. This is all just an educated guess, obviously.

On another note:

My wife, a sax player/middle school band director, who disagrees with me about a lot of music related things, is actually against adding woodwinds to corps. After thinking about this thread I asked her what she thought, without voicing my opinion, because I was curious to what her response would be coming from a different point of view. We teach the high school marching band together, and she has always thought that woodwinds were a pain to deal with on the field, not durable enough, they don't produce enough sound unless there are 100 of them or they are overblowing making poor tone quality. This was all news to me. She has no drum corps background other than going to DCI east with me a few times. She says one of her favorite things about corps is the absense of ww. I swear I did not lead her to that answer, this caught me very much by surprise, as we disagree about most things when it comes to corps and the education system.

[WOOHOO]

Anytime you take a survey, you will only get maybe a 30% response. And that's a very high response rate. I'm guessing, most of the people who care enough to respond, are the ones who care enough to join groups like DCP. I don't know if the audience you are referring to would be in favor of or against adding woodwinds. My guess is the responses would be a little for and a little against, but just about indifferent. In the meantime, there is a good chunk of the drum corps fan pie that is vehemently against it. Of course that's just my opinion of how it would go down, but the people who care most about the issue would def. have the highest response rate. So the results, in my estimation, would probably not differ that much from the results you see on DCP. Perhaps slightly less against adding ww, but most likely still against nonetheless. This is all just an educated guess, obviously.

On another note:

My wife, a sax player/middle school band director, who disagrees with me about a lot of music related things, is actually against adding woodwinds to corps. After thinking about this thread I asked her what she thought, without voicing my opinion, because I was curious to what her response would be coming from a different point of view. We teach the high school marching band together, and she has always thought that woodwinds were a pain to deal with on the field, not durable enough, they don't produce enough sound unless there are 100 of them or they are overblowing making poor tone quality. This was all news to me. She has no drum corps background other than going to DCI east with me a few times. She says one of her favorite things about corps is the absense of ww. I swear I did not lead her to that answer, this caught me very much by surprise, as we disagree about most things when it comes to corps and the education system.

Well, I, as a sax player, am for it. There really isn't much else to say about this. I hardly see woodwinds getting much past being used as solo instruments. The funny part about all this is that it hasn't even been formally proposed as to how it would be used, and there is a big tizzy.

Edited September 10, 2010 by WOOHOO

[mgarside83]

Personally, I don't want to exclude ww players from corps because they play ww. More so, because ww don't make any sense in the activity. Here's why I feel this way.

1. Uniformity of look. Drum corps is a visual activity, sometimes more so than a music activity. Anyone who had taught competitive marching band knows the struggles of making all the different shapes of ww instruments look good. They ruin the effect of hornsnaps, visual clarity, horn pops, pretty much any instrument visual contribution to a show. All uniformity in that regard is not attainable to the level of an all brass corps. The hornline just looks a lot cleaner and is more visually effective. A marching band could be just as clean as a corps, but the corps will always appear cleaner because of the similarity of the instruments, regarding the visual element.

2. Projection. WW do not project like brass do. To accomodate that, corps would have to increase their size limits to 250 to get a balanced ww to brass sound. OR cut down significantly on the number of brass players, which would significantly cut down on the volume and music effectiveness of the corps. The other alternative is to amplify WW to match the brass sound.

3. Durability. As another poster has already stated, ww can't be cleaned in the shower, cant be out in the rain, need constant upkeep with pads and reeds.

4. Expense. repairs (there are many more moving parts requiring much more maintenance), pads, and reeds would be a major cost to any corps with a significant amount of ww

Jazz bands generally don't use french horns or violins, and that is totally acceptable. An symphony excludes the marching snare voice, and no one questions this. But drum corps excluding ww is unnacceptable??? ww don't even make sense in the activity. It would make much more sense to me to model the competitive marching band's instrumentation after that of a drumcorps (and many do, I have seen high school's compete with only sax and brass, or very minimal ww presence at all, these programs tend to do very well) why don't we go at it from that direction? It would be much harder t accomplish, and maybe unrealistic, but given what the activity is, it would make a lot more sense. If not, maybe I'll take my marching tenors and try to get a spot in the local symphony. Maybe that will work.

[mgarside83]

Well, I, as a sax player, am for it. There really isn't much else to say about this. I hardly see woodwinds getting much past being used as solo instruments. The funny part about all this is that it hasn't even been formally proposed as to how it would be used, and there is a big tizzy.

It is a tizzy. Quite frankly, DCI had been making SOOOO many changes of late, I think people are tense and tired of it being in a constant state of flux. Settling down might be a good thing for a few years. Let the activity develope within the guidelines that are there now and see where it goes. It has hardly even begun to develop within the framework of the most recent changes, and we are already talking about changing it again.

[WOOHOO]

Personally, I don't want to exclude ww players from corps because they play ww. More so, because ww don't make any sense in the activity. Here's why I feel this way.

1. Uniformity of look. Drum corps is a visual activity, sometimes more so than a music activity. Anyone who had taught competitive marching band knows the struggles of making all the different shapes of ww instruments look good. They ruin the effect of hornsnaps, visual clarity, horn pops, pretty much any instrument visual contribution to a show. All uniformity in that regard is not attainable to the level of an all brass corps. The hornline just looks a lot cleaner and is more visually effective. A marching band could be just as clean as a corps, but the corps will always appear cleaner because of the similarity of the instruments, regarding the visual element.

2. Projection. WW do not project like brass do. To accomodate that, corps would have to increase their size limits to 250 to get a balanced ww to brass sound. OR cut down significantly on the number of brass players, which would significantly cut down on the volume and music effectiveness of the corps. The other alternative is to amplify WW to match the brass sound.

3. Durability. As another poster has already stated, ww can't be cleaned in the shower, cant be out in the rain, need constant upkeep with pads and reeds.

4. Expense. repairs (there are many more moving parts requiring much more maintenance), pads, and reeds would be a major cost to any corps with a significant amount of ww

Jazz bands generally don't use french horns or violins, and that is totally acceptable. An symphony excludes the marching snare voice, and no one questions this. But drum corps excluding ww is unnacceptable??? ww don't even make sense in the activity. It would make much more sense to me to model the competitive marching band's instrumentation after that of a drumcorps (and many do, I have seen high school's compete with only sax and brass, or very minimal ww presence at all, these programs tend to do very well) why don't we go at it from that direction? It would be much harder t accomplish, and maybe unrealistic, but given what the activity is, it would make a lot more sense. If not, maybe I'll take my marching tenors and try to get a spot in the local symphony. Maybe that will work.

Most of these problems would be irrelevant if they were just micd solo instruments

[Dennis Argul]

Absolutely.