Tom Brace Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 > The same could be said of ANY concert performance, be it Springsteen, Boston, Chicago, Cleveland, Atlanta symphonies, the Met, etc. But, your opinion can't change the marketplace all by itself... Concert tickets...$400? Download the video...$1.29? See a bootleg on YouTube...FREE? The costs are only going in one direction... So, some people could care less about the difference of the sound live versus recording. Some people could care less about analog vs. digital signals, etc. In this era of Autotune, many pop sounds aren't live any longer. Tom: The thing is that while fans of Springsteen certainly download $1.29 videos or watch bootleg Youtube videos for free, they "still" will (in mass) buy the $400 live Springsteen concert tickets thus selling out pro stadiums. But the fans of DCI who can purchase inexpensive Fan Network downloads or watch bootleg Youtube for free are tending to stay away from the live DCI performances. That is the difference between Springsteen fans and DCI fans; and it is a huge problem which needs rectification. Stu...the point is....they are not. They may have 10 years ago. But, ALL concert performance audience numbers are down. Fewer performers are touring because the audience is not there. It's too much risk. Tours are expensive. You need sellouts to make money. Marginal performers are going direct to a UPC code and then getting their performances directly to iTunes, what have you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Brace Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 fsubone: Everything you said about the member experience in the activity is accurate. The thing is if the audience dwindles, and you perform to less and less people while the costs remain the same or go higher, DCI will not be able to financially sustain itself; which in turn will eliminate all the great experiences you mentioned about membership. To help the activity stay solvent, and since you are a current member, what ideas would you propose to increase the numbers of paying people attending Finals? and I say, 3/4 of the people on here beeoch-ing about this mic or this amp of this "leader's decision" are still buying tickets and still going to shows. Fact, is, there are fewer and fewer people passionate about this...period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Brace Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 yes it is. yes you need the kids. but you need paying customers too. amazing how that works. try having DCi finals week, knowing that DCI makes the biggest bunch of it's annual income that week, with less than 10,000 fans. then tell me what kids will have to pay because of it. DCA has way less than 10000 fans. They seem to have an enjoyable weekend. So, it can be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Brace Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 I think the problem that exists in this conversation is that some of us seem to think that there is only one thing that the fans want. That's simply not the case. Some fans want flashy, theme driven and charismatic shows. Others like shows with more (for lack of a better term) intellectual shows. Some like crazy drill and virtuosic music. What is entertaining to some fans is boring to others. I know plenty of people who absolutely loved the Cadets show last year. On the other hand, I know plenty of people who hated it. I know plenty of people who loved SCV last year, and plenty of people who hated it. So to say DCI needs be more entertaining really means that some groups of people have decided that they want all of the top 12 shows to be exactly what they want, and that's their answer to driving ticket sales. I understand the concept of the crowd reaction, but having gone to a lot of drum corps shows with a lot of different drum corps fans, I can tell you that in my experience, the people who like shows like SCV's show from last year, aren't as vocal during shows because they are more driven by little nuances and don't want to miss those little details in the show. Others who are more into the showy flashy types of shows tend to cheer louder because they are looking for a more primal kind of experience. The fact is, some corps try to be intellectual and appeal to the nerds in the crowd. Other corps try to wow the audience and go for the more surface level reaction. Still others try to draw an audience with sheer amazing things that they can do with their instruments. There are lots of ways to design a show, and sometimes these methods work really well, and sometimes they fail. But if you really think that what you want is what the entire crowd wants, you are mistaken because DCI's audience is way too diverse to pin down exactly what entertains them. The crowds aren't there because the economy sucks, and because DCI is trying to hard to make the activity a mainstream art form, which it will never be. I agree with all but the last statement. I have not seen one thing in the last 6 years to indicate this to be the case. When the ESPN contract ended, I believe DCI gave up wholesale on the "mainstream" notion. They are out to emulate the next closest niche with a larger audience base...HS Marching Bands who compete regionally and nationally. NOT MAINSTREAM at all. Simply part of the same niche with a larger but well related audience. The pitch is to those members to join the drum corps ranks for a summer...maybe two. The pitch is to their parents, grandparents, aunt, uncles, friends, to also become fans of drum corps when it's near you. Go to Indy when you can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Brace Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 I'm not sure, maybe part of it is lowering costs, and moving FInals, but those are the same ideas everyone has. I don't personally mind Lucas Oil, but I didn't really have it in my mind to spend four years, and age-out in the same stadium. I had dreamed of aging-out at Camp Randall, or some place like that, but I don't mind Indy. And lowering the prices at Finals could help. I mean, there was a summer where I didn't march for injury reasons, and I looked into going to Finals anyway, and flying out and the ticket would have cost me over 500 dollars, almost 100 of it just going to the Finals ticket. That's a lot of money for most people, I know it's a lot of money for me. Outside of this, I really think people should give the TOC a chance. This could very well be the kick-start DCI needs to get fans in the stands. People have been complaining about shows being too high-brow lately, and maybe this could be a chance for things to change. Instant encores, and maybe different show style, more fan accessible, will be what the fans want. I know there were finals tickets selling for much lass than $100. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted February 2, 2011 Author Share Posted February 2, 2011 (edited) I'm not saying any of those groups aren't great because they are. My opinion, however, is that if drum corps changes into somthing akin to one of those groups, than DCI HAS folded, and retaining the name of DCI is largley irrelevent at that point so the question is moot. I don't want to see DCI go away, or fold, or become inaccessible, but I simply disagree with the assertion that changing the activity is saving it because it's not, it just changes it. The stark reality is that if DCI becomes like Blast, or Blue Man Group, is that DCI no longer exists in any meaningful sense other than in name, and as they say, the title doen't make the book. BozzlyB: Ok, so to you a Blue Man Group style unit would radically change the activity into something other than drum corps (ie no brass, no color guard) got it. So, here is a second curious question (and of course anyone else can answer also): "Hypothetically", you would rather see the organization of DCI fold than allow, say, the addition (not radically change) but the addition of woodwind players to be able to perform; even if that allowance would possibly attract more youth performers and paying audiences? Edited February 2, 2011 by Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted February 2, 2011 Author Share Posted February 2, 2011 Stu...the point is....they are not. They may have 10 years ago. But, ALL concert performance audience numbers are down. Fewer performers are touring because the audience is not there. It's too much risk. Tours are expensive. You need sellouts to make money. Marginal performers are going direct to a UPC code and then getting their performances directly to iTunes, what have you. Tom: If it is an overall cultural change throughout the entire spectrum of music, then DCI needs to do nothing more than downsize and adjust to the overall market, as well as tap into where the people are like selling Videos on Amazon or posting stuff on Youtube, instead of attempting to add/subtract things, play at larger venues, create the TOC shows, or adjust their judging system to increase their share of the market, correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Tom: If it is an overall cultural change throughout the entire spectrum of music, then DCI needs to do nothing more than downsize and adjust to the overall market, as well as tap into where the people are like selling Videos on Amazon or posting stuff on Youtube, instead of attempting to add/subtract things, play at larger venues, create the TOC shows, or adjust their judging system to increase their share of the market, correct? Every corporation needs to downsize at some point to keep their head above the water. DCI is as much a victim of the times as any other performing art, or business. DCI needs to do whatever it needs to do to stay in the black. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skewerz Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 BozzlyB: Ok, so to you a Blue Man Group style unit would radically change the activity into something other than drum corps (ie no brass, no color guard) got it. So, here is a second curious question (and of course anyone else can answer also): "Hypothetically", you would rather see the organization of DCI fold than allow, say, the addition (not radically change) but the addition of woodwind players to be able to perform; even if that allowance would possibly attract more youth performers and paying audiences? I'll reply to this one...it won't matter, because I won't be there to watch it, nor will be a lot of other people. DCI is just a brand. Drum corps is (was) a unique activity. DCI can do whatever they want. They (and everyone else) needs to realize they will lose a huge chunk of cash when they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skewerz Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Every corporation needs to downsize at some point to keep their head above the water. DCI is as much a victim of the times as any other performing art, or business. DCI needs to do whatever it needs to do to stay in the black. companies (especially niche companies) that downsize for whatever reason have a habit of staying downsized for the rest of it's dwindling life. You can't reach more fans by downsizing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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