What's Better - 1st Place or Best Caption?

[GregW]

Ponder This Grassopper...

• Did you march in a corps that won it all?
  
• Did you take high Drums or Horns yet fail to win finals?
  
• Would you personally trade one for the other?
  

While I have never been blessed to stand at finals in a corps that either won High Drums or took 1st place, I've had an opportunity to march next to individuals who have done both. So, which would mean more to you. If were one of those who were lucky enough to have won it all, or took 1st place in your particular caption, or if you had an opportunity to go back in time and march one summer, what would mean the most?

If your corps won it all, yet your particular caption ended up in 4-5 place or lower.

If you were in one of the amazing Argonne or Madison hornlines that were blowing people away, or the spectacular guards of 2-7, or even the most obvious example, the 1977 drumline of Etobikoke, yet the rest of the corps wasn't up to the same level.

What would give you the most personal satisfaction and pride looking back on your drum corps career?

At the same time, was there any outward frustration knowing that one or more sections were holding the rest of the corps back?

Any Thoughts?

[84BDsop]

Easy one for me....I'd trade my 84 brass title for 2 tenths more in score and the overall win.

[TrainWreck]

Did you march in a corps that won it all?

Yes. 1982 Blue Devils

Did you take high Drums or Horns yet fail to win finals?

Yes, several times. Won brass 81, 84, 85 and lost finals. I wasn't in the drumline but they won 83, 84, 85 when we lost finals. In fact, I believe it was the first time that a corps with the highest scoring musical ensemble (drums + horns) did not win DCI (84 and 85).

Would you personally trade one for the other?

Interesting question. Would I rather have won DCI versus winning a caption? Yes. I don't think the drumline would've though. Would I trade winning a caption for winning DCI? At the time I suppose so. Now? Nope.

What would give you the most personal satisfaction and pride looking back on your drum corps career?

Well, I have the perspective of time so I know what gives me the most satisfaction. The pride is the mere fact I spent 5 incredible seasons in an amazing drum corps organization, the Blue Devils. We collected a lot of hardware.

What satisfies me the most has nothing to do with winning. Sure I hear "cool, you won brass" or DCI or something to that effect or the years I marched. The most amazing thing to hear/read is how somebody saw one of our performances and it was their first time seeing a drum corps show, or perhaps just their first time seeing the Blue Devils and the impact it had on their life. They remember that moment. Some wanted to learn how to play a musical instrument because of that moment. Some have said they wanted to be join a drum corps or they wanted to be in no other corps other than the Blue Devils because of the experience of one of our performances.

I think that is beyond cool. That brief moment of performing for a crowd and at the time not realizing that you were impacting one or more kids who looked at the entire corps as something so incredible they wanted to be you or have that experience. To see that some followed through on their dream then later write about seeing the Blue Devils at some random show on our tour and how it impacted them.

That is something beyond the ring.

Coming onto DCP every so often and seeing posts from people I've never met talking about one of our performances. Something we did 30 years ago and people are still talking about it. And talking about it with references that it was the most incredible thing they've ever seen or the best performance they've ever witnessed. That's pretty satisfying.

The experience of those summers, the competition and amazing performances. I wouldn't trade my experiences for anything.

Edited February 1, 2011 by TrainWreck

[MilesandCassius]

I think TrainWreck said it really well. I was impacted greatly by the years he marched. In fact, I had posters and pictures on my bedroom wall of BD. I marched because I wanted to be like TrainWreck, and I wanted to feel like he did on a football field as a kid growing up. And I, like TrainWreck, have had the ultimate satisfaction of being the inspiration to a newer, younger generation of performers.

Firstly though, you're probably not going to get a lot of responses to this thread because the people who've won championships BITD by and large came up "through the ranks" of small drum corps and therefore know the entire activity pretty well, and most of us are going to find it a little distasteful to talk about how great it was to win, because it's bragging. All of us have respect for all corps members, from Open to C class. Winning was great, but it was a by-product of wanting to be the best we could be.

I was fortunate enough to win in '85 and '87. Would it've been as thrilling if we just won a caption? Probably not. As nice as it is to win captions, winning it all means EVERYONE gets to feel great. It meant WE together were the best. I think my fellow corps members would agree that we cared if the colorguard were good or the drums or the horns were good. We were one corps. Not corps member(s)-plural, one. Winning as one reinforced that fact, and that's what made it satisfying.

But I've said it before on these forums, in '86 it was a rough year in many ways and we ended up 4th. But I look back on that year as fondly as I do the other years I marched. I wouldn't trade those memories from that season for the world. Winning, caption or otherwise, is really great, but it's not why I or any of my friends marched. It was because of the people, the work ethic, the excellence, the pagentry, and the memories on the practice field.

[SomeOtherJoe]

Easy one for me....I'd trade my 84 brass title for 2 tenths more in score and the overall win.

Interesting. I wouldn't trade my drum title, your brass title, or the guard title for the overall win. In fact, I wouldn't change a thing... even if those caption titles weren't attained.

It was a pleasure marching in that corps, playing that show night in and night out, surrounded by that level of quality people top to bottom... a privilege. 30 years later and I still have a great deal of respect & love for that hornline & guard and what they were all about. I'll take that over an overall win any day.

No thanks... no trade for me!

[84BDsop]

Interesting. I wouldn't trade my drum title, your brass title, or the guard title for the overall win. In fact, I wouldn't change a thing... even if those caption titles weren't attained.

It was a pleasure marching in that corps, playing that show night in and night out, surrounded by that level of quality people top to bottom... a privilege. 30 years later and I still have a great deal of respect & love for that hornline & guard and what they were all about. I'll take that over an overall win any day.

No thanks... no trade for me!

I think the difference is you and Rob both had multiple years (Rob in BD, you in VK, and I think SCV before BD)....I only had one year....being a rook-out kinda colors my perceptions. Plus Rob DID win in 82, so he has THAT to judge agaist...and if I remember 83 was your SCV year...so you were at the top of the pack. I came in straight from college marching band, having never marched corps style before. It was quite the learning curve!

However...would I trade being in BD for a win? For THAT the answer's a big HELL NO!!

But that's an entirely different question.

[LancerLegend]

Having marched with a popular corps - high energy and high fan approval - the audience rewarded us greatly. A few years later - I was teaching my corps - and the response was still there - only the corps was much better. In 1980....you might already know.

At the end of the day, I always wanted to judges to like our show as much as the fans. However, it seems as though the champs seldom get the fan support that the other corps get - unless there is a monumental upset (1988).

While we could bang really well, and our guard was second to absolutely none - yes - I wanted to be the first east coast corps to bring it all home. The title as a marching member seems to say, your hard work paid off. As a staff member, it's an acknowledgment that your philosophy and teaching has made a difference.

I am one of a very few FMMs that can say - as a marching member and instuctor - that my corps had defeated every corps in the country. Think of that statement.....many people have done one or the other but not both, so I am grateful for where I have been and what I was able to do with my friends.

And like Sam has said - I am loyal to my corps through thick and thin - for better or worse.....but it would have been nice....

[sarnia sam]

[*]Did you march in a corps that won it all?

no

[*]Did you take high Drums or Horns yet fail to win finals?

sort of

[*]Would you personally trade one for the other?

no

If you were in one of the amazing Argonne or Madison hornlines that were blowing people away, or the spectacular guards of 2-7, or even the most obvious example, the 1977 drumline of Etobikoke, yet the rest of the corps wasn't up to the same level.

What would give you the most personal satisfaction and pride looking back on your drum corps career?

At the same time, was there any outward frustration knowing that one or more sections were holding the rest of the corps back?

Any Thoughts?

There is no anomosity toward the other sections of the corps I marched in for what happened. In a way it was a bit of a blessing because people like you keep bringing it up. Thanks. The horns and guard were pulling thier weight and their numbers show it. We were playing catch up all summer long with marching and the drill. Yes it would have been nice to score an extra point and a half on one marching sheet to make what we did more legitimate (there's really only one corps of which some members won't acknowledge we'd have been a long shot to beat). Trade the circumstance, I don't think so. In the end we came out winners anyway.

Regards,

John

[jwscv87]

I think the difference is you and Rob both had multiple years (Rob in BD, you in VK, and I think SCV before BD)....I only had one year....being a rook-out kinda colors my perceptions. Plus Rob DID win in 82, so he has THAT to judge agaist...and if I remember 83 was your SCV year...so you were at the top of the pack. I came in straight from college marching band, having never marched corps style before. It was quite the learning curve!

However...would I trade being in BD for a win? For THAT the answer's a big HELL NO!!

But that's an entirely different question.

I am on the same page as you Sam. I would ABSOLUTELY trade a caption win for two more tenths. Some of the responses imply that if you admit that you would trade for the title that you are de-valuing your experience is some way. That is not at all the case. The spirit of the question, I think, is simply which do you place a higher value on - a caption award or a full corps title. For me, it is the full corps title by a wide margin.

[SomeOtherJoe]

I think the difference is you and Rob both had multiple years (Rob in BD, you in VK, and I think SCV before BD)....I only had one year....being a rook-out kinda colors my perceptions. Plus Rob DID win in 82, so he has THAT to judge agaist...and if I remember 83 was your SCV year...so you were at the top of the pack. I came in straight from college marching band, having never marched corps style before. It was quite the learning curve!

However...would I trade being in BD for a win? For THAT the answer's a big HELL NO!!

But that's an entirely different question.

I think context is probably relevant. Winning drums, horns, & guard is pretty unique (especially losing overall). I just look back at it more fondly than I think I would a win w/out the captions. If you framed the question "would you rather win with a superior design, or lose with a better performance", I'd go with the latter.

Then again, drummers are a bit different breed, and we looked at things differently back then. We used to basically focus in on the section and figure, if you handled that, everything else would work itself out. Given the increased demand and responsibility each section has to the overall corps these days, it's pretty impressive when units can pull off a win coupled with a caption.

Bottom line, though: I'm an old, selfish, drumline putz who, even if it was "just" the drum caption, wouldn't trade. Might make me a schmuck, but I really don't care. Winning corps would have been nice, but winning the caption was something we were "supposed" to do. Losing would have been a failure.