Is size going to be an issue?

[Dir_en_X]

I would venture that the B groups for BD and SCV both have an average age of around college, so maybe somewhere between 19 and 20. No, I don't have data to back this up, but I do have firsthand experience with standing right beside them at finals last year, and I can tell you from looking at those kids that the majority (at least last year) was getting close to age out. There's an obvious and simple explanation for this phenomenon: these kids want to march with the world class group, and one path to that is to get into the BD or SCV system and try to move up to the mothership. I would guess that last year our average age was around 18, and this year I bet our average age has dropped a little. Now, what's the difference between 18 and 19 or 20?

This I feel is just as big an issue. If say, OC, Spartans, Revolution or MC win the next few years, they would probably get more support and look to move into the WC. Great for them, but what about BDB and SCVC? Both are competitive giants in the OC, but I doubt that they would ever move up to WC. It's hard enough running one WC corps, having two WC corps for the BD or SCV organizations is asking way too much.

The point is this: If the 'All corps participate in WC Quarters' idea vanishes after this year (or in a few years), and we go back to separate OC and WC events, what will become of actual competition in the OC? I'd much prefer a battle for 1st, not 3rd.

[mahler444]

This I feel is just as big an issue. If say, OC, Spartans, Revolution or MC win the next few years, they would probably get more support and look to move into the WC. Great for them, but what about BDB and SCVC? Both are competitive giants in the OC, but I doubt that they would ever move up to WC. It's hard enough running one WC corps, having two WC corps for the BD or SCV organizations is asking way too much.

The point is this: If the 'All corps participate in WC Quarters' idea vanishes after this year (or in a few years), and we go back to separate OC and WC events, what will become of actual competition in the OC? I'd much prefer a battle for 1st, not 3rd.

I definitely agree with you there. BDB is never moving out of open class. The BD organization would never pit two groups against each other. Actually, I seem to remember things getting a little crazy when Madison was going through some tough times. We always saw Capitol Sound as our "feeder" group, but when things got really nasty, there was a lot of disagreement between the two organizations, even though they were under the same umbrella (I believe they were, forgive me if I am wrong about this in any way).

[Phirefenix]

This I feel is just as big an issue. If say, OC, Spartans, Revolution or MC win the next few years, they would probably get more support and look to move into the WC. Great for them, but what about BDB and SCVC? Both are competitive giants in the OC, but I doubt that they would ever move up to WC. It's hard enough running one WC corps, having two WC corps for the BD or SCV organizations is asking way too much.

The point is this: If the 'All corps participate in WC Quarters' idea vanishes after this year (or in a few years), and we go back to separate OC and WC events, what will become of actual competition in the OC? I'd much prefer a battle for 1st, not 3rd.

I'm not as close to the Spartans as when I marched, but I don't exactly see them seeking out WC status. Being the powerhouse they were circa 2003-2007 they proved they can be consistently in the hunt, and they like it that way. They are getting their legs back after a year off, and doing a fantastic job of it. I anticipate they'll continue to do what they've done for decades right where they have always done it.

[Madrid]

True, Mr. Madrid... OC had quality... but it's so nice that this year they have both quantity AND quality :).

You know, I agree. Caught them in Downtown Portland this past weekend. Oceans of quantity (largest OC ever?) and tons of quality!

[ajwdad]

Interesting discussion. I tend to agree with the vis comments as you can do more with a larger corp. But then, you have to get all of them to execute at a high level. Not so easy, and even though BDB's horn line is about 16 people smaller this year, I do know that they cut horn line members. I tend to think that the staff and directors matter more to the corp than the number of people marching, within reason.

Seen several threads this year that overstate BDB's size, by a lot. But the staff of BDB and SCVC are top notch... and I think that is why they have been successful the last few years. Also, that college age comment was interesting. I think that BDB has had 3 ageouts... ever... Not sure about SCVC. Most of the kids I know are in high school and a lot of them are sophmores.

[mahler444]

Interesting discussion. I tend to agree with the vis comments as you can do more with a larger corp. But then, you have to get all of them to execute at a high level. Not so easy, and even though BDB's horn line is about 16 people smaller this year, I do know that they cut horn line members. I tend to think that the staff and directors matter more to the corp than the number of people marching, within reason.

Seen several threads this year that overstate BDB's size, by a lot. But the staff of BDB and SCVC are top notch... and I think that is why they have been successful the last few years. Also, that college age comment was interesting. I think that BDB has had 3 ageouts... ever... Not sure about SCVC. Most of the kids I know are in high school and a lot of them are sophmores.

I think they generally age out from papa corp BD. I don't know for sure, maybe someone who has marched there recently can clarify? I just know that we were warming up right next to them last year at semis and finals, and those were not sophomores in high school. Maybe it's that California sun

[ajwdad]

I think they generally age out from papa corp BD. I don't know for sure, maybe someone who has marched there recently can clarify? I just know that we were warming up right next to them last year at semis and finals, and those were not sophomores in high school. Maybe it's that California sun

Hi Mahler,

Actually, my son was a freshman last year and in the corp as were 4 of his friends... all freshmen. And there were lots of 16 year olds. I don't have the actual ages, but I definitely do not think that most of these kids are 19-20 years old. In fact, I think that 1 kid aged out, but mostly, they are high school students. We have a few of the corp members staying at our house this summer, most been marching 3 years and all of sophmores.

Also, BD definitely gets a lot of the BDB kids, but I also know that Vanguard and even SCVC get some... John Lee was with BDB (in high school) and BDA but finished at Madison Scouts.

[mahler444]

Hi Mahler,

Actually, my son was a freshman last year and in the corp as were 4 of his friends... all freshmen. And there were lots of 16 year olds. I don't have the actual ages, but I definitely do not think that most of these kids are 19-20 years old. In fact, I think that 1 kid aged out, but mostly, they are high school students. We have a few of the corp members staying at our house this summer, most been marching 3 years and all of sophmores.

Also, BD definitely gets a lot of the BDB kids, but I also know that Vanguard and even SCVC get some... John Lee was with BDB (in high school) and BDA but finished at Madison Scouts.

Well, if you have personal insight into the age, then you would know more than I do about it. I was just going off of my perception, which I admit could be wrong.

[Dir_en_X]

I'm not as close to the Spartans as when I marched, but I don't exactly see them seeking out WC status. Being the powerhouse they were circa 2003-2007 they proved they can be consistently in the hunt, and they like it that way. They are getting their legs back after a year off, and doing a fantastic job of it. I anticipate they'll continue to do what they've done for decades right where they have always done it.

Good point. I know the Spartans are still building themselves up after 2009, and have done an amazing job with it. I would just wonder if history repeats itself and they become a perennial medalist/champion again (which 2010 was a great start to that) that they or any other corps for that matter would feel pressure from anyone to move up a class. As long as I see those giant black plumes on the field, I'm more than happy.

[noneofyourbusiness]

Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I think this new cooperative agreement announced between DCI and DCA could blossom into something much bigger over the next few years. One of the things I see happening is the merger of DCI OC and DCA. Financially, this seems the obvious choice. It would allow those three DCI OC corps from TX to stay in the TX area for many more shows, since they would be joined with the all-age corps in that area in events large enough to be meaningful. The same could be said in the west, midwest, south and northeast as well. Reducing the touring model for the OC corps in today's economic environment should be priority number one. Then, when the costs are significantly less, they can pass these savings on to the members and I think you would see all corps grow in size as more people could afford to march (both time and money), making the competitive field much more level.