Another any key vs. G discussion

[ozarkbugler]

I had what may be considered a strange thought on the way home from a show the other night. Many old timers (myself included) have such fond memories of the G horns of yesteryear. So...

Just so everyone today could form their own opinions after hearing a DCI corps live on G horns--what if there were a rotating set of G horns played by a different corps each night. Do you think the fans would be able to pick them out? If so, why?

P.S. yeah I know arrangements are written in multi-key. So perhaps an encore tune?

Edited July 29, 2011 by ozarkbugler

[JimF-LowBari]

Try going to DCA and see corps using both keys. Some say they can tell the difference but I can't with my untrained ear. To me any sound differences could be attributed to horn manufacturer instead of key.

[ozarkbugler]

Yep...totally agree with the DCA comparison. What I was suggesting was for the younger DCI fan to be able to hear the sound coming from a DCI hornline.

[JimF-LowBari]

OK, understand now (think I had you confused with another poster). Would be interesting considering the Bb vs G posts made by people who haven't had a chance to hear both keys in use.

Edited July 29, 2011 by JimF-LowBari

[Bbwhat?]

You can't hear the hornlines well enough to tell the difference because of all that infernal racket being made by the pit. Every second is filled with marimba noise and clanging and banging.

[Shadow_7]

The rotating thing wouldn't work too well, unless the pit learned two different versions. And then you're left noticing the different version, not the difference in sound.

To be honest I've found it hard to tell myself anymore. At least up close or with smaller groups. The difference IMO is how far the sound projects, which seems to favor the G horns. But most watching of drumcorps situations, not that there are as many options to do that these days, I've got to look at the actual instruments in use and recognize a brand and model of a Euph or other horn to know if they're on Bb or G. The G's generally do a half loop before entering the valve cluster, the Bb's tend to just go straight to the valve cluster on the leadpipe. Or just look at the trumpets and if they all look like piccolo trumpets, they're Bb. The bells are so tiny, it's almost cute, if it weren't for that hideous sound they make.

[ozarkbugler]

The rotating thing wouldn't work too well, unless the pit learned two different versions. And then you're left noticing the different version, not the difference in sound.

To be honest I've found it hard to tell myself anymore. At least up close or with smaller groups. The difference IMO is how far the sound projects, which seems to favor the G horns. But most watching of drumcorps situations, not that there are as many options to do that these days, I've got to look at the actual instruments in use and recognize a brand and model of a Euph or other horn to know if they're on Bb or G. The G's generally do a half loop before entering the valve cluster, the Bb's tend to just go straight to the valve cluster on the leadpipe. Or just look at the trumpets and if they all look like piccolo trumpets, they're Bb. The bells are so tiny, it's almost cute, if it weren't for that hideous sound they make.

I previously edited my original post after realizing (like a dummy) the different key issues involved. That's why I added an encore tune from the respective corps' history. Anyway, it will never happen.

[G-horns]

You can't just "swap out" Bb/F and G horns without considering the issues of intonation. I don't care what brass instrument it is or what key it is in or what quality the instrument, there are pitches that will not center properly and need to have player adjustment. This will not happen without some time spent practicing and discovering what needs to be done. So, like you said in a follow-up, it will never happen anyway.

[Steve7867]

You can't just "swap out" Bb/F and G horns without considering the issues of intonation. I don't care what brass instrument it is or what key it is in or what quality the instrument, there are pitches that will not center properly and need to have player adjustment. This will not happen without some time spent practicing and discovering what needs to be done. So, like you said in a follow-up, it will never happen anyway.

I totally agree. Even playing a trombone versus a marching trombone requires adjustment by the player. It takes some real getting used to.

[Brad T.]

Projection is key. At the Racine, WI DCA show, Cincinnati Tradition went up against Govenaires, and Kilties vs. MBI. Tradition and Kilties are on G, while Govies and MBI are Bb. To be honest, I really didn't notice a substantial difference until Sunday afternoon rehearsals. We were rehearsing on the back side of the middle school, and I heard two hornline rehearsals from the back side of the high school across the street. It was Kilties and MBI both in hornline rehearsal. While MBI has a very solid hornline this year, they were overpowered by the projection of the G horns clear across the street and between two large buildings. Granted echoes and sound ducting and all of those actual physics type things surely came into play, there is nothing like the cutting power of G horns.

As a side note, many people claim that G hornlines will always score lower than a Bb hornline. I'd love to have a brass judge blindfolded and told to score the USMC Drum and Bugle Corps and put them up against a Bb corps of the same size. Is it truly the horns or the people blowing into them. That would be a huge test right there.