jwscv87 Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 If you look at the 990's, most corps show the staff pay in a separate line in their expense detail. The pay you referred to above is listed in the appropriate line item on the expense detail page. And yes, most are not paid very well - especially if you consider the number of hours they put in, and the odd hours they keep. Agreed, but I believe what you are describing is a lump sum Salaries & Wages line item, correct? Not, brass caption head Joe Smith was paid $xxx. You can only attempt to infer how that money was spread and of course that can vary wildly amongst corps. You see very few individual salaries on a 990. What Stu describes as "healthy", I would describe as ####/poor. Certainly our perspectives on salaries can vary, but that is my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyRyder_FMM Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Agreed, but I believe what you are describing is a lump sum Salaries & Wages line item, correct? Not, brass caption head Joe Smith was paid $xxx. You can only attempt to infer how that money was spread and of course that can vary wildly amongst corps. You see very few individual salaries on a 990. What Stu describes as "healthy", I would describe as ####/poor. Certainly our perspectives on salaries can vary, but that is my opinion. I agree completely. Copensation that would translate into less than minimum wage is hardly healthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 (edited) Do the math I suggested, then consider it's a job that calls for work 7 days a week, 14+ hours per day for three consecutive months. You'd be hard pressed to say most of the staff are NOT doing it for the love of the activity (and perhaps building their resume to help them land educational positions). Their pay is less than minimum wage if they were paid hourly. While people do devote many hours to the activity, the only single position which requires the "massive" number of hours you are referring to throughout the year is the Executive Director. As for the rest of the staff, many Show Designers and Caption Heads will fly in and out of tour because they have other "day" jobs; and the techs, who actually tour the most, are the young'ins who are there to gain experience so that they can hopefully move up the food chain. Nevertheless, the staff in all highly successful corps, from the director down to the techs, although they will never become "rich" from corps, are certainly being monetarily compensated enough to make it worthwhile. If you look through the 990s you will see a director of a particular corps (in which the corps is the only entity) in which that director is making around $50k/yr. And other directors of corps with multiple sub-organizations actually command more than that amount. The show designers / caption heads make less but are paid rather well, and the techs make the least. Like I said earlier, take away all pay in the highly successful corps and see how many of these great staff members stick around to do it just out of "love". Edited October 13, 2011 by Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwscv87 Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 (edited) While people do devote many hours to the activity, the only single position which requires the "massive" number of hours you are referring to throughout the year is the Executive Director. If you look through the 990s you will see a director of a particular corps (in which the corps is the only entity) in which that director is making around $50k/yr. And other directors of corps with multiple sub-organizations actually command more than that amount. As for the rest of the staff, many Show Designers and Caption Heads will fly in and out of tour because they have other "day" jobs; and the techs, who actually tour the most, are the young'ins who are there to gain experience so that they can hopefully move up the food chain. Nevertheless, the staff in all highly successful corps, from the director down to the techs, although they will never become "rich" from corps, are certainly being monetarily compensated enough to make it worthwhile. Like I said earlier, take away all pay and see how many of these great staff members stick around to see if they are doing it just out of "love". ...so we are looking at the same numbers. :). I hired a staff accountant today for $53k. I have seen salaries of ED's of major corps and DCI just north (barely) of $100k. That is hardly healthy in my opinion. Edited October 13, 2011 by jwscv87 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 ...so we are looking at the same numbers. :). I hired a staff accountant today for $53k. I have seen salaries of ED's of major corps and DCI just north (barely) of $100k. That is hardly healthy in my opinion. Clarification question: Are you saying it is hardly healthy because they (the staff) are making "too much" or "too little" in monetary compensation for their expertise and time commitments? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwscv87 Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Clarification question: Are you saying it is hardly healthy because they (the staff) are making "too much" or "too little" in monetary compensation for their expertise and time commitments? Specifically, I was referring to the ED's in that last post. I believe most are tremendously underpaid. If you are the ED of DCI, YEA, BD, SCV etc with multiple successful programs, etc and you only earn $100k per year I would argue you are underpaid. I have professionals on my staff earning that kind of money and the breadth of their responsibilities pales in comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 (edited) Specifically, I was referring to the ED's in that last post. I believe most are tremendously underpaid. If you are the ED of DCI, YEA, BD, SCV etc with multiple successful programs, etc and you only earn $100k per year I would argue you are underpaid. I have professionals on my staff earning that kind of money and the breadth of their responsibilities pales in comparison. Ok, then you and I are actually in complete agreement. I believe the compensations should be commiserate with qualifications, experience, expertise, and time commitment; and believe that the activity would be better served as a whole if those compensations more closely resembled salaries and wages in the for-profit world. The ways to raise capital, however, within the non-profit world are so restrictive, and the regulations on non business related income are so draconian, that there is no realistic way to accomplish that goal. This does leave us with a certain aspect of the "love" factor because I am sure the directors of certain corps would earn two - three times more in for-profit corporations but they choose to stay in the non-profit world. Edited October 13, 2011 by Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumno5 Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 As a sort of spin-off on the 'Staff or Talent' thread, I wonder how it might work if DCI established a salary cap (for instructors), or some sort of 'talent cap' for members. Yes, I am aware it is probably a violation of the First Amendment (free speech). I am also aware that it is way too long before June... Are you proposing this just as an academic exercise, or do you see a need/reason for a cap to be established? What purpose would it serve? peace, Fred O. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Brace Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Are you proposing this just as an academic exercise, or do you see a need/reason for a cap to be established? What purpose would it serve? peace, Fred O. I can answer your query in two words. "It's October." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumno5 Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I can answer your query in two words. "It's October." Hahahaha - yeah, I guess that about sums it up! Fred O. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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