Thoughts on jazz. . .

[Stu]

I think you can take away from his 'rantings' that you don't need to worry about labeling music (or anything, really). I took away that you don't need to try to cram an artist's style into any narrow/broad/generic sense. Mr. Payton considers himself a musician in the stylings of "Postmodern New Orleans music" which is a FAR better and more apt description of his playing style than just "jazz."

But... Post Modern New Orleans is also a "Label", even if it is a self-described term. That makes your, or Payton's, opinion hypocritical concerning staying away from labels which crams an artist's style into any narrow/broad/generic sense. Also, the terms symphony, opera, or even the word music are all labels. How do you propose differentiating the various styles without using nomenclature?

Edited December 5, 2011 by Stu

[danielray]

wtf is postmodern? what comes after postmodern? postpostmodern?

"a late 20th -century style and concept in the arts, architecture, and criticism, which represents a departure from modernism and is characterized by the self-conscious use of earlier styles and conventions, a mixing of different artistic styles and media , and a general distrust of theories."

Modernism was a specific movement in the arts and philosophy that started in the late 1800's and went on a sort of broad form until WWII.

[danielray]

http://nicholaspayto...t-cool-anymore/

Read it a couple of times before knee-jerking.

And then think.

Now. . . drum corps. . .

Chuck Naffier

Melody Fan

Fully on board with Payton. The future is a hell of a lot more interesting than the past... and sacred cows make the best cheeseburgers.

[soccerguy315]

"a late 20th -century style and concept in the arts, architecture, and criticism, which represents a departure from modernism and is characterized by the self-conscious use of earlier styles and conventions, a mixing of different artistic styles and media , and a general distrust of theories."

Modernism was a specific movement in the arts and philosophy that started in the late 1800's and went on a sort of broad form until WWII.

how can you define something as modern that is 100 years old? Academics need to make up new terms so they can try to get published and make a name for themselves. It's ridiculous.

Edited December 5, 2011 by soccerguy315

[danielray]

how can you define something as modern that is 100 years old? Academics need to make up new terms so they can try to get published and make a name for themselves. It's ridiculous.

Well... modernism as a name was connected with what is defined as the modern era... the second industrial revolution, which was sort of ushered in by the mass production of steel (which subsequently kick started massive improvements in transport, manufacturing and military).

The atomic bomb is to the post-modern era as bessemer steel was to the modern era.

There will be other names for the ages as we go along... but modern does fit, as it is the first era of truly mass production and mass education.

Edited December 5, 2011 by danielray

[JoeDz]

I have absolutely no idea what qualifies as "Jazz." Further, in my 67 years on this planet (the only planet on which I've lived), I was never called "Cool."

Those two points openly admitted at the outset, go to Fan Network and listen to Mr. Crocker introduce the 2002 and 2003 Blue Devils...watch their show, and you will see "Jazz" and "Cool" defined.

Those 20+ minutes of Blue Devil performance sum up MY "...Thoughts on Jazz." (PostSocialSecurity)

Joe Dz in NJ

[ML23]

Payton needs to lay off the dope. Some respect for his contemporaries wouldn't hurt either.

Edited December 5, 2011 by ML23

[Stu]

Payton needs to lay off the dope. Some respect for his contemporaries wouldn't hurt either.

[Rifuarian]

how can you define something as modern that is 100 years old? Academics need to make up new terms so they can try to get published and make a name for themselves. It's ridiculous.

Words can have more than one meaning. "Modern" is one of those words. It can mean either the period we're living in now, or to the period in the 1800s and early 1900s when the birth of industrial capitalism fundamentally transformed our world. Weird, huh? Postmodernism refers to a reaction to the certainty of the "modern period". Some of my fellow academics talk about moving beyond postmodernism, but I've usually stopped paying attention long before they get to that point so I can't really tell you anything about that.

Postmodernism is a real and serious, uh, thing . . . but in most cases it really is a byword for BS. That's the case in this article. I love musicians to death, but when they try to get all intellectually, as in the case of this article or with some of the more overwrought drum corps shows(especially with drum corps) it ain't pretty.

Edited December 5, 2011 by Rifuarian

[danielray]

Payton needs to lay off the dope. Some respect for his contemporaries wouldn't hurt either.

So, if an individual demonstrates an ability to think or express a view that is outside of those conventionally held, he is automatically dismissed as a drug addict?

Such a sad and narrow view.

Human progress owes a debt only to those thinking well outside of convention... as no innovation ever came from consensus or a conformity of thought.