kickhaltsforlife Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Having seen the info, placement is directly related to average age. It holds true from first to last. Could you maybe post that info here or link us to it so you have some credibility? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bersurkman Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Could you maybe post that info here or link us to it so you have some credibility? I said I saw the info. It doesn't mean its available for publication. BTW, I have credibility. You may not believe my STATEMENT has credibility. There's a big difference.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Having seen the info, placement is directly related to average age. It holds true from first to last. Let's be careful about the stats here. Simply being older is NOT the factor that matters. It's just that OTHER factors correlate with age. For example, if you went to some random college band and took 150 21yr olds with no corps experience and dropped them into Pioneer, Pioneer would NOT win DCI. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 (edited) Let's be careful about the stats here. Simply being older is NOT the factor that matters. It's just that OTHER factors correlate with age. For example, if you went to some random college band and took 150 21yr olds with no corps experience and dropped them into Pioneer, Pioneer would NOT win DCI. While true, Pioneer would place a LOT higher than currently in such a scenario. Conversely, if we took 150 17 year olders with no Corps experience, the Cadevaliers would not finish in the top 3 either. Age is very important in placement ( all things being equal ), but experience is even a greater advantage, imo.Thus, when we put experienced marchers, with the average age higher than other Corps, together with well paid design staffs, we get The Cadevaliers. The Cadevaliers have won 84% of the DCI Titles since 1976 ( 29 out of 35 ) and 90% of all the titles since 1990 ( 19 out of 21 ) And thats no surprise, given this dynamic at work. Edited May 10, 2012 by BRASSO 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 (edited) While true, Pioneer would place a LOT higher than currently in such a scenario. Conversely, if we took 150 17 year olders with no Corps experience, the Cadevaliers would not finish in the top 3 either. Age is very important in placement ( all things being equal ), but experience is even a greater advantage, imo.Thus, when we put experienced marchers, with the average age higher than other Corps, together with well paid design staffs, we get The Cadevaliers. The Cadevaliers win 90% of the DCI Titles since 1976. And thats no surprise, given this dynamic at work. I agree Pioneer would do better but why? Musicianship? Physical ability? Age is only a factor in so much as it's a predictor for other factors which actually matter. Which do you think would win: Corps A : 150 21 yr old drum corps rookies Corps B: 150 20 yr old drum corps vets with 4 years experience in a top 6 corps. IMO age (as an independent factor on it own) has nothing to do with it. Sure there are factors (like experience and maturity) that correlate strongly with age but most of those factors *can* move independently of age. The only factor that might not be independent is physical stamina. Another counter-example: I'll bet if you took one of the top high school bands from BOG GN and fielded them as a drum corps in the summer, they'd do remarkably well (especially if you considered the cut to 150). And they would all be 15-18 yr olds. Yet another example. Take one of the Japanese high-school-aged corps-style high school bands and bring them over for a summer. Would they be dead last (because of their very low average age) ? Edited May 10, 2012 by corpsband Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 (edited) they be dead last (because of their very low average age) ? No Corps operate from a pure level of " no experience " or " multi year experience". These Corps operate with a diversity of ranges of age, experience, talent level, and so forth. But by and large The Cadevaliers have been able to win 90% of the DCI Titles since 1990 because they have a higher average age marcher, a higher experienced level marcher, and higher paid design staffs than all the other World Class Division Corps. Thats the formula for success that has worked since 1976...ie, top paid staff, experienced marchers, higher maturity aged marchers than Corps not The Cadevaliers. While not a total absolute, these are the most critical elements that have put the Cadevaliers pretty much in the drivers seat for the last 35 years. Edited May 10, 2012 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 No Corps operate from a pure level of " no experience " or " multi year experience". These Corps operate with a diversity of ranges of age, experience, talent level, and so forth. But by and large The Cadevaliers have been able to win 90% of the DCI Titles since 1990 because they have a higher average age marcher, a higher experienced level marcher, and higher paid design staffs than all the other World Class Division Corps. Thats the formula for success that has worked since 1976...ie, top paid staff, experienced marchers, higher maturity aged marchers than Corps not The Cadevaliers. While not a total absolute, these are the most critical elements that have put the Cadevaliers pretty much in the drivers seat for the last 35 years. And you didn't answer a single question in my post but instead just repeated yourself. So...... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 (edited) And you didn't answer a single question in my post but instead just repeated yourself. So...... I guess, you didn't read the part about " no Corps operates with no experience marchers ", so.... the question was answered even though its a hypothetical world that exists nowhere but in your fantasy world. But you can swim in my pool, but don't pee, got it ? Edited May 10, 2012 by BRASSO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 I guess, you didn't read the part about " no Corps operates with no experience marchers ", so.... the question was answered even though its a hypothetical world that exists nowhere but in your fantasy world. But have a nice swim, anyway. Oh.. and the fact the you know very well that each of your answers to those hypotheticals would have torpedoed "AGE AS THE DETERMINING FACTOR" . But that's fine -- just repeat the words "Cadevaliers" and "90%" and I'm sure you'll feel much better about it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Oh.. and the fact the you know very well that each of your answers to those hypotheticals would have torpedoed "AGE AS THE DETERMINING FACTOR" . But that's fine -- just repeat the words "Cadevaliers" and "90%" and I'm sure you'll feel much better about it. Get off my lawn... (and get out of my pool.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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