Phantom1701 Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 The difference is... in general when a staff leaves for another corps, that doesn't coincide with a 0% vet retention rate for the section in question. For example, I'm sure that only a small percentage of the Bluecoats brass vets went to SCV this year, and they still have vets to work with. But in the case of Phantom after 2010, every single one of those guys bailed. It's a bit silly to expect "maintaining a level of excellence" when the previous year was a championship-winning, firmly established percussion section from a staff that had been there nearly a decade - vs a literally 100% rookie section and a new staff. Not to mention that in Paul Rennick's first two years with Phantom the drumline hung in 5th place before improving... success is not instant. If you've seen anything from MCM, you know that Gwaltney has put out some of the best lines of any circuit in the last decade. Excellence is a mind set and when you allow yourself to settle for less because any number of excuses you can generate, then you will remain average. 100% attrition...it happens. PR, is still PR and I find it hard to believe that their tradition and standard of excellence did not attract enough raw material that someone with Shane's abilities could not develop and have performing at a high level by this point in time. And for what it is worth, I'd take 5th place right now. But even more important than the ordinal placement is the score itself. You can be fifth by 5 tenths from the leader. They are a good 1.5 points away from the top 3 corps after this weekend. At some point the "Rennick left and took all of the good players' excuse will need to stop. If anything those of you who continue to perpetuate that excuse are actually insulting Shane. Because you are implying that he is not capable of taking players and in 2 years developing them into world class drummers. As if somehow only Rennick has that ability. Give Shane the respect he deserves by judging him on his own merits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincoln Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Excellence is a mind set and when you allow yourself to settle for less because any number of excuses you can generate, then you will remain average. 100% attrition...it happens. PR, is still PR and I find it hard to believe that their tradition and standard of excellence did not attract enough raw material that someone with Shane's abilities could not develop and have performing at a high level by this point in time. And for what it is worth, I'd take 5th place right now. But even more important than the ordinal placement is the score itself. You can be fifth by 5 tenths from the leader. They are a good 1.5 points away from the top 3 corps after this weekend. At some point the "Rennick left and took all of the good players' excuse will need to stop. If anything those of you who continue to perpetuate that excuse are actually insulting Shane. Because you are implying that he is not capable of taking players and in 2 years developing them into world class drummers. As if somehow only Rennick has that ability. Give Shane the respect he deserves by judging him on his own merits. What is your objective with these posts? - for Phantom to get rid of Gwaltney? I don't agree. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaos001 Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 What is your objective with these posts? - for Phantom to get rid of Gwaltney? I don't agree. I think he's saying that we're supposed to respectfully bash the guy for his poor product on the field? But I could be wrong. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom1701 Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 I think he's saying that we're supposed to respectfully bash the guy for his poor product on the field? But I could be wrong. The results on the field speak for themselves. But whenever someone brings up the subject of PR's drum line under-performing all we ever hear are the endless excuses about Rennick leaving the cupboard bare. And unlike some here I choose to give the kids who are marching their collective tails off the benefit of the doubt and point to the writing/teaching as being the issue. That may or may not be accurate, but I think it is fair to at least consider that as a possibility. There is still a week to go and anything can happen. Overall I feel PR has a great shot at the title, but only if the percussion scores can at least come within reach of the corps currently ahead of them. Shane is clearly a capable instructor, but for whatever the formula at PR doesn't seem to be working. After the season the staff and administration can assess the situation and decide keep Shane or not. My guess is that they will. I just hope that he can get this thing turned around, because they seem to be going backwards not forwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincoln Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 (edited) But whenever someone brings up the subject of PR's drum line under-performing all we ever hear are the endless excuses about Rennick leaving the cupboard bare. Lately, "someone" has been you. Honestly, the corps is in a much better position overall than expected this season which is a nice surprise. There are those who say "BUT - if this section were better we could be so much closer!" I'm not one of those people. Edited August 5, 2012 by LincolnV 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burgerbob Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Lately, "someone" has been you. Honestly, the corps is in a much better position overall than expected this season which is a nice surprise. There are those who say "BUT - if this section were better we could be so much closer!" I'm not one of those people. Well, looking at the recap roundup, if Phantom was a third place drumline (which is asking a lot, with all the other lines out there) they would be in a solid 3rd, if not 2nd (considering the overall music score). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaos001 Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Yeah, it's always the teacher, not the students. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincoln Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Well, looking at the recap roundup, if Phantom was a third place drumline (which is asking a lot, with all the other lines out there) they would be in a solid 3rd, if not 2nd (considering the overall music score). Two years ago, Rennick gone - they go up a placement. One year ago, Shaw gone - they could very well go up a placement (or two). Predictions last year AND the year before were that disaster would strike. It didn't happen. They are doing quite well considering and have a really nice core group of instructors now. We don't hear any "hearsay" posts about so-and-so instructors fighting or not getting along the way we have in the off season for the past two years. IMO, they have a great great group to build with right now. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burgerbob Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Two years ago, Rennick gone - they go up a placement. One year ago, Shaw gone - they could very well go up a placement (or two). Predictions last year AND the year before were that disaster would strike. It didn't happen. They are doing quite well considering and have a really nice core group of instructors now. We don't hear any "hearsay" posts about so-and-so instructors fighting or not getting along the way we have in the off season for the past two years. IMO, they have a great great group to build with right now. You'll get no argument from me. I think the corps is better over all than with the previous staff. I'm just saying, if the drumline was scoring higher than they are, so would the overall placement. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalEightball Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Excellence is a mind set and when you allow yourself to settle for less because any number of excuses you can generate, then you will remain average. 100% attrition...it happens. PR, is still PR and I find it hard to believe that their tradition and standard of excellence did not attract enough raw material that someone with Shane's abilities could not develop and have performing at a high level by this point in time. And for what it is worth, I'd take 5th place right now. But even more important than the ordinal placement is the score itself. You can be fifth by 5 tenths from the leader. They are a good 1.5 points away from the top 3 corps after this weekend. At some point the "Rennick left and took all of the good players' excuse will need to stop. If anything those of you who continue to perpetuate that excuse are actually insulting Shane. Because you are implying that he is not capable of taking players and in 2 years developing them into world class drummers. As if somehow only Rennick has that ability. Give Shane the respect he deserves by judging him on his own merits. Well, no. The way you're explaining it clearly shows that "excellence" to you really just means a placement, or a number. A great example of true excellence would be to take a section with the lowest vet retention out of any of the world class drum corps percussion sections, then turn them into a 7th place percussion section. Shane and the kids at Phantom did that last year. As for this year, it's not over yet - and this is the best corps Phantom has had in many years. Why are we complaining again? Because it's not good enough? And again, I'll make this comparison.. Do you think people were demanding an explanation when Paul Rennick started with Phantom and his percussion section was placing below the full corps? I bet those people got their explanation a few years later. Key word being "years". 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.