Is This Still Fun?

[reallyoldfrt]

Don't get me wrong....I love what these kids are doing today and wish them all nothing but the best.

I have seen the best side and the worst side of drum corps. A few years ago I walked away from it because I was (and still am) in love with my wife. There was to much partying for me and as a high school music teacher, and today you have to be careful about everything you do because the one time you let your guard down someone will stab you in the back and your career is over.

As far as negativity on DCP, as I said, it's just the very small minority that ruin it. I have the utmost respect for many of you, some I have met personally and others I would like to meet someday.

I will never be in a Hall of Fame anywhere and no one cares about what I did when I did drum corps, marching band and winter guard. I can say I had a great deal of fun and learned life lessons that have helped me become the teacher, husband, father and man that I am today. No one can take that away from me.

Some of our "experts" should step back and really try to understand where this activity was in the 1960's and 70's and how we got to todays corps. Instead of tearing apart the past or , in some cases, trying to tear apart the future. Nothing can be as it once was as things are constantly changing but we must remain flexible to meet the changes that shape our activity. Be accepting towards the change. If you don't like it then get away from it!

Don't misunderstand me either. I'm very impressed with the level of performance produced by the very few organizations still in competition. My sadness is for the ordinary kid, with limited, even very limited, musical ability, no formal musical knowledge, and very little money behind him or her, who used to have a place in his or her local area's drum and bugle corps. BITD EVERY corps had kids who fit that description in their ranks. Many of them became superb musicians, or very expert marchers, when they were given the opportunity to partake in the vast smorgasboard that the activity used to offer.

As soon as there began to be serious money involved, the power, and the decision making were, (I believe) consciously skewed to favor those with the money. BITD the activity was never about the money. It was popular because it was cheap. Corps, even National Champions, had about 50 or 60 kids. In my small town there were 5, count ;em, 5 corps serving hundreds of kids from ages 8 to 21.

That is what I'm saddest about; the fact that thousands of kids, just like us, have no hope of experiencing the joys we had. I'm no Hall of Famer, either. 95% of us weren't. It may be different in other areas, but up my way music education has all but disappeared in many school systems. It's considered expensive, and elitist, and of no monetary benefit to most students later in life. We have competing bands. But a kid can't just show up and join one if he doesn't have his own instrument, doesn't already have some notion of how to play it, and can't read music, or had no interest in learning how to read music. If that kid is a waste of time for the band then so was Louis Armstrong.

BITD the cream rose to the top. Every corps had folks who were pretty to very good. Every corps had kids who possessed less talent, but could hang in there if they did their best. They were not excluded for any reason. Blessed Sacrament had them. St Kevin's had them, The Cavaliers had them. But so did everybody else. Every National Champion corps had them. Kids were the life blood of the activity. All kids.

[Sam98]

I agree. I wrote a column in DCW in the early 80s that was a faux press release from about 2015 in which drum corps was like major league baseball: a corps was trading some players to another corps and pulling up players from the minors. Even then, you could see that the small group of people who had taken over the activity realized that the fewer corps there were, the higher the salaries that those who remained with those corps could get. Early on, DCI funded the top 25 corps. Those who ran the top 12 stopped that and accumulated all the money in the hands of the top twelve. And in their own hands.

They narrowed the market, narrowed the number of people who could hold the top positions and, since they held those positions, they ensured that they would remain in the top positions and earn the big salaries that the narrowed market allowed. The irony was that DCI was formed to promote drum corps, but the main result was that DCI promoted increased salaries for a very limited number of people, and that those few people ensure that they remain where they are and get the salaries that they could not earn anywhere else for their talent level. The ultimate irony was that, as collateral damage, DCI killed the activity.

The anger I see is that those of us who saw enriched lives because drum corps took us out of our lower middle class environment, showed us the world, and gave us dreams for advancement, are sad that today's lower middle class youth have no such activity to raise them up.

I'm glad that well off music students get to have fun in the activity today. But if it were up to me, I'd give the activity back to neighborhood kids who don't have many opportunities. And force those who want to earn big money in music go to broadway or hollywood where they belong.

That is weird--I was just thinking of that very article a couple of years ago when I first heard the term "contract" being used in conjunction with marching members.

The future is now, I suppose.

[BRASSO]

It's rare anymore for a high school student to not have access to a marching band that doesn't do at least a little travel to competitions.

It is "rare" for a High School student in New England to " have access to a marching band that competes ". Less than 5% do. 95% of students that attend High School in New England do not have access to a Marching Band at their High School " that competes " with other Marching High School Bands. There are a little over 1200 High Schools in the 6 New England States of Massachusetts, Connecticut, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Maine, Vermont. This region of the country currently has 41 total High School Marching Bands that travel to " compete " in Marching Band competition outside of their communities. In the 60's there were over 400 Drum Corps that " competed "in New England alone. Today, there is less than 50 units of either Junior Drum Corps OR High School Marching Band that compete in competition in all of New England. BOTH the Drum Corps AND the High School Marching Band are a rarity to the eyes and ears of most of the young now throughout New England. New England does have some fine College Marching Bands within its region, but this is mostly filled with outsiders that fill their ranks while in attendance. NESBA, the High School Competition Marching Band Organization for the New England Region does what they can to promote thee growth of New England High School Marching Bands, and runs effective competitions, but it has had little success in developing much interest on the part of schools, parents and the young, beyond its current 40-60 units throughout the 6 state region. If it comes to providing limited town and city extra curricular resources to the ski team, hockey team and rink, JV lacrosse, etc or for " a Marching Band ", the Band will lose out to that every time. Because of this, even the current Drum Corps shows in New England are devoid of the High Schoolers. The average age of the Drum Corps audience attendee at shows in Massachusetts is probably 55-60. Mostly Drum Corps alums from " back in the day ". I don't see too many High School Marching Band kids at Drum Corps shows in New England. I'm sure there are a few in the crowd here and there. But unlike the 60's, 70's, there are few teenagers in attendance at Drum Corps shows in New England anymore. The overwhelming vast majority of High School kids in New England don't know there is such a thing as "competing High School Marching Bands", let alone a competing " Drum Corps ". Its just the way things have " evolved " ( or " devolved " if one prefers ) over the years in the region.

Edited April 10, 2013 by BRASSO

[MikeD]

Especially since they don't have to use their real name.

Bob,

I totally agree!

Signed,

Fred

[MikeD]

The marching music activity is thriving, but the numbers are now mostly with the competitive high school marching bands, which were barely a "thing" in the 1950s and 1960s. What the marching bands are now is what the community corps were back then. The kids are getting their marching fix in their marching bands, so most of them don't need to be in a drum corps to get some of the same positive effects kids of a half century ago got in drum corps. These positive effects include responsibility, camaraderie and contributing to something bigger than themselves. It's rare anymore for a high school student to not have access to a marching band that doesn't do at least a little travel to competitions.

Many of the prime instructors of these bands came out of drum corps, and their students have gone one to teach more bands. Therefore, one can say the influence of drum corps has never been stronger, because now competitive marching bands are found all over the country. Very few kids are now excluded from being in a marching unit. You mention there were over 1000 corps in North America back then...but now there are way more than a thousand competitive marching bands.

So, the marching activity, of which drum corps is still its most influential subset, is stronger than ever. You just need to know where to look. For those who wish to enjoy the ultimate marching music experience, drum corps is still available and will continue to attract the best of the best.

As I have been saying just this since RAMD days, I agree 1000%.

[MikeD]

It is "rare" for a High School student in New England to " have access to a marching band that competes ". Less than 5% do. 95% of students that attend High School in New England do not have access to a Marching Band at their High School " that competes " with other Marching High School Bands. There are a little over 1200 High Schools in the 6 New England States of Massachusetts, Connecticut, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Maine, Vermont. This region of the country currently has 41 total High School Marching Bands that travel to " compete " in Marching Band competition outside of their communities. In the 60's there were over 400 Drum Corps that " competed "in New England alone. Today, there is less than 50 units of either Junior Drum Corps OR High School Marching Band that compete in competition in all of New England. BOTH the Drum Corps AND the High School Marching Band are a rarity to the eyes and ears of most of the young now throughout New England. New England does have some fine College Marching Bands within its region, but this is mostly filled with outsiders that fill their ranks while in attendance. NESBA, the High School Competition Marching Band Organization for the New England Region does what they can to promote thee growth of New England High School Marching Bands, and runs effective competitions, but it has had little success in developing much interest on the part of schools, parents and the young, beyond its current 40-60 units throughout the 6 state region. If it comes to providing limited town and city extra curricular resources to the ski team, hockey team and rink, JV lacrosse, etc or for " a Marching Band ", the Band will lose out to that every time. Because of this, even the current Drum Corps shows in New England are devoid of the High Schoolers. The average age of the Drum Corps audience attendee at shows in Massachusetts is probably 55-60. Mostly Drum Corps alums from " back in the day ". I don't see too many High School Marching Band kids at Drum Corps shows in New England. I'm sure there are a few in the crowd here and there. But unlike the 60's, 70's, there are few teenagers in attendance at Drum Corps shows in New England anymore. The overwhelming vast majority of High School kids in New England don't know there is such a thing as "competing High School Marching Bands", let alone a competing " Drum Corps ". Its just the way things have " evolved " ( or " devolved " if one prefers ) over the years in the region.

NESBA has about 40 member bands. MAC in CT has around 20, and USBands has another group...USBands and the others have some level of overlap (I did not count them up), but NESBA and MAC are fairly distinct, since MAC is primarily CT (with a couple from outside CT).

It may be a regional thing as far as your impression of HS kids attending corps shows...every show I have been to here in NJ is packed with HS kids, a lot of them being bussed in by their directors. Lots of legacy fans too, of course.

Where does your 400 number of competing corps come from? The history of drum corps book has quoted 440 competitive corps in the entire country at the end of the VFW/AL era, 1971, according to posters in both RAMD and DCP...people on all sides of the various issues.

[reallyoldfrt]

NESBA has about 40 member bands. MAC in CT has around 20, and USBands has another group...USBands and the others have some level of overlap (I did not count them up), but NESBA and MAC are fairly distinct, since MAC is primarily CT (with a couple from outside CT).

It may be a regional thing as far as your impression of HS kids attending corps shows...every show I have been to here in NJ is packed with HS kids, a lot of them being bussed in by their directors. Lots of legacy fans too, of course.

Where does your 400 number of competing corps come from? The history of drum corps book has quoted 440 competitive corps in the entire country at the end of the VFW/AL era, 1971, according to posters in both RAMD and DCP...people on all sides of the various issues.

I think the problem is that my figure of over a thousand corps included, not just competing corps, but also parade corps, standstill corps, (remember them?), straight marching corps, exhibition corps, feeder corps, and all other permutations of the activity. There is, and was BITD, a tendency to disregard all the other types of drum corps, whose combined total outnumbered the competing corps by a hefty margin.

Drum corps used to contain a wide spectrum of levels of participation. That too has almost vanished today. It should also be remembered that BITD there was a fair amount of antipathy between bands and drum corps. Most band directors forbade their brass players from marching in a drum corp. They claimed that playing a bugle would destroy their embouchure. There were very few band kids in drum corps BITD. And very few drum corps kids in bands. Rightly or wrongly, bands were considered to be far below corps on the food chain.

In Massachusetts there was no real history of quality high school bands. There were a few exceptions to that, but the quality bands were in the CYO Music Circuit: St. William's of Dorchester, whose parish bordered on St Kevin's, St Agnes of Arlington, Holy Name of West Roxbury, and St. Joseph's of Medford. None of those bands was affiliated with any high school.

[MikeD]

I think the problem is that my figure of over a thousand corps included, not just competing corps, but also parade corps, standstill corps, (remember them?), straight marching corps, exhibition corps, feeder corps, and all other permutations of the activity. There is, and was BITD, a tendency to disregard all the other types of drum corps, whose combined total outnumbered the competing corps by a hefty margin.

No disagreement on that, I was responding to this: "...In the 60's there were over 400 Drum Corps that " competed "in New England alone"

Drum corps used to contain a wide spectrum of levels of participation. That too has almost vanished today. It should also be remembered that BITD there was a fair amount of antipathy between bands and drum corps. Most band directors forbade their brass players from marching in a drum corp. They claimed that playing a bugle would destroy their embouchure. There were very few band kids in drum corps BITD. And very few drum corps kids in bands. Rightly or wrongly, bands were considered to be far below corps on the food chain.

Well, this comment depended on which POV you came from. My HS director HATED drum corps, but then he hated marching band too...and really didn't like concert band all that much...he was an oboe player who loved orchestra more than anything.

As far as membership...we did have a LOT who did both band and corps (much to the chagrin of that director) in my little GSC corps, and when I moved to Garfield they too had a good percentage of HS band kids (1970-72).

In Massachusetts there was no real history of quality high school bands. There were a few exceptions to that, but the quality bands were in the CYO Music Circuit: St. William's of Dorchester, whose parish bordered on St Kevin's, St Agnes of Arlington, Holy Name of West Roxbury, and St. Joseph's of Medford. None of those bands was affiliated with any high school.

I don't really know the history of Mass, but in more modern times, Dartmouth and King Philip are have both been wonderful bands. I recall Billerica, Blackstone-Millville, South Hadley and Dennis-Yarmouth as well, from my judging days in the 80's and 90's, having fine bands.

[Legolaus]

Hey Keith

I just posted something on another topic you started entitled, "What memories do you have of..." I have not been an active fan of the activity from many years now, but I do relish some of the stories shared on forums like this. The stories on the other topic about the 1965 RoyalAires and the IC protest as priceless.

To me drum corps is a precise activity that may not appeal to me any more, but the memories and experiences the activity provided me are something I will cherish until I now longer take breath!

[alankarls]

For what it's worth:

In the discussion about the state of the drum and bugle corps activity, those who support the current environment cite the musical, visual, and athletic aspects. Those qualities can’t be denied. Today’s performers are more highly skilled and trained more intensely. The music, costuming, and moves are far beyond what existed in the 60s and 70s.

However, a better measure of the health of the activity is in the number of events and thus the number of people who witness the activity. In the 60s and 70s, there were hundreds of local events in Wisconsin and many other states at which drum corps performed: civic events, bridge openings, state and country fairs, Fourth of July, Ice cream socials, parish picnics, Memorial Day, Labor Day, Veteran’s Day, St. Patrick’s day. It was hard to avoid seeing a drum corps. If your city had a parade, there were going to be drum corps in it. If you had a county fair, there would be a parade and a contest. Cities of 5,000 hosted championship quality corps. So during that time, drum corps was out in the hustings creating fans and instilling in kids the desire to participate.

The Racine Scouts survived on these festivals. We did two a weekend and sometimes four in a day. On a Fourth of July weekend, we were always seen by over a hundred thousand people and, depending on crowd estimates, sometimes up to 250,000. And those same people saw other corps, too. On a regular weekend, we could be seen by 20,000. The Racine Fourth of July parade, in the early 60s, often had more than 15 drum corps and sometimes up to 20.

So, you could reasonably estimate that on a regular summer weekend in the mid 60s, several million people witnessed a drum and bugle corps in the United States.

How many people see drum corps today? How many kids now sit on a curb, see a drum corps and say “I want to be in that.”? How many adults see a local show and decide they want to see a big show with a lot of great corps?

Drum corps today is musically and visually excellent. But compared to the 60s, it has no audience and it is not developing one.