Traditional grip - Why?

[Professor]

just one thing.. traditional is not the original drumming style..

I should have been more specific. I was referring to competitive drum & bugle corps beginnings. Not the era if rope drums.

[84BDsop]

did you start learnin by emulating the drumline in traditional first?

Yeah...and your explanation makes perfect sense!

but trust me...you do NOT want to hear me drum....like BBs in a dryer!

[oldtimedrummer]

agreed that we disagree... 

But again if a baseball player were to try and switch and try to learn to throw and catch well with thier opposite from normal hands. They would try to do the same thing as there other hand was doing since thats what they know how to do. They wouldn't try to do it different, just mirrored from thier other hand. If you were to try to eat eith your other hand, woudn't you try to do it the same as your dominant hand?

Cheezedogg makes some good points, however, explain Buddy Rich ? How was he able to play like he did with tradtional grip? Or Belson, or Grupa, Blakey, Gadd, Butch Miles, Weckl, Etc, Etc, Etc... (The greatest drummer ever played traditional). All in the interest of the debate.

Edited February 27, 2004 by oldtimedrummer

[cheezedogg 23]

well from what little i know about them. I've also seen them play matched. The percussion teacher here teaches only matched, but if you come here and decide to learn to use it on your own, he'll help you with it. He uses it on Set on some tunes.. Using traditional on set isn't impossible. Its just alittle different. I hear it really aides to playing Bebop and fast stuff because the head of the stick is still over the snare while you can hit the under side of the high hat and play 16ths there with the right hand goin around the set. But from most modern day drummers when its slow, or and even in alot of funky beats they tend to use matched.

BDBsop.. hehe I know what you mean. I can do concert playing, and matched dline playing. But If i even try traditional, my left hand gets all weird sounding, and i'm left handing.. its just weird to all of a suddenn we twisting instead of up and down dropping... :-)

Edited February 28, 2004 by cheezedogg 23

[Professor]

For the sake of arguing with myself, I just realized something (unrelated to drum corps drumming) … When playing on a set, I used to think it made absolutely no sense at all to use traditional grip, because it is clearly awkward when going around the toms. However, when considering Buddy Rich’s style, you pretty well HAVE TO play traditional grip. Because it’s all about finessing those beats on the left hand. I don’t think you can do that delicately enough with matched grip.

It’s kind-of like eating. Those that don’t hold their utensils properly are using match grip, and they eat like apes. Those that hold their utensils properly are using reverse traditional grip, and they eat delicately and tastefully.

Coincidence???? I think not.

[oldtimedrummer]

well from what little i know about them. I've also seen them play matched. The percussion teacher here teaches only matched, but if you come here and  decide to learn to use it on your own, he'll help you with it. He uses it on Set on some tunes.. Using traditional on set isn't impossible. Its just alittle different. I hear it really aides to playing Bebop and fast stuff because the head of the stick is still over the snare while you can hit the under side of the high hat and play 16ths there with the right hand goin around the set. But from most modern day drummers when its slow, or and even in alot of funky beats they tend to use matched.

BDBsop.. hehe I know what you mean. I can do concert playing, and matched dline playing. But If i even try traditional, my left hand gets all weird sounding, and i'm left handing.. its just weird to all of a suddenn we twisting instead of up and down dropping... :-)

Good point, I probably lean toward traditional because I play mostly Jazz and Big Band stuff, although I do use matched at times too. It's funny, sometimes the musical style feels more comfortable with a particular grip. I was an am influenced the great set players that play(ed) traditional. Max Roach, Buddy, Belson, Butch Miles, Gadd, Dave Weckl, Bissinotte sp?, Elvin Jones, Blakey, Peter Erskin on & on ..... Based on their playing, these guys all make a pretty strong case for the viability of traditional grip.

Edited February 28, 2004 by oldtimedrummer

[FakeFlam]

Traditional on set is no big obstacle -- you just would tend to set the toms a bit flatter -- have a peek at Stewart Copeland's drums -- speed, finesse, and power -- all while hampered by the 'inferior' grip. ;-)

[mobrien]

Started lessons when I was eight, and learned trad grip on the left. Marched in a corps that went match grip in the late 70s, then switched back to a relaxed trad grip when I moved over to Cavaliers in 81, which is more or less the grip I've had ever since Since most of the playing I do now is set with small group jazz ensembles, it serves me well, as I find it easier to feather and do brush work with the trad left hand (lower arm profile relative to the drum? maybe...).

That being said, there are times when I'll switch to match grip; if covering something with a "Gadd-like" groove or using CoolRods, I switch to match grip. Don't know why, just seems more natural.

For drum corps, seems that it was a lot of follow the leader. SCV switched in 77 and everyone (even Cavaliers) were doing it next season. Bridgemen and then BD were winning in early 80s with trad grip and seems that match grip was as outdated as disco.

[dmfootworks]

Traditional on set is no big obstacle -- you just would tend to set the toms a bit flatter -- have a peek at Stewart Copeland's drums -- speed, finesse, and power -- all while hampered by the 'inferior' grip. ;-)

The drum set that Buddy used, and Gene Krupa before him, is designed for traditional grip. The drummer sits off-center-to-the-left and the toms move to the right. If you watch those guys, a lot of their stuff on the toms is done with one hand while the left continues to dance on the snare. Matched grip makes more sense for kits that are more symmetrically designed or which have a wide array of components from left to right. In an interview in Modern Drummer years ago, Max Weinberg explained that Buddy Rich had told him that he should switch to traditional otherwise he wouldn't be able to get any facility out of the kit. That's a great way to describe it, and that makes sense for that type of kit. Conversely, the great teacher Freddy Gruber convinced Neil Peart to switch to traditional grip and there has been criticism that he is not able to go at the kit in the way he had when he played matched grip. The most relevant thing to which grip to employ, then, has to do with how the kit is set up -- and the type of music.

[oldtimedrummer]

Traditional on set is no big obstacle -- you just would tend to set the toms a bit flatter -- have a peek at Stewart Copeland's drums -- speed, finesse, and power -- all while hampered by the 'inferior' grip.  ;-)

The drum set that Buddy used, and Gene Krupa before him, is designed for traditional grip. The drummer sits off-center-to-the-left and the toms move to the right. If you watch those guys, a lot of their stuff on the toms is done with one hand while the left continues to dance on the snare. Matched grip makes more sense for kits that are more symmetrically designed or which have a wide array of components from left to right. In an interview in Modern Drummer years ago, Max Weinberg explained that Buddy Rich had told him that he should switch to traditional otherwise he wouldn't be able to get any facility out of the kit. That's a great way to describe it, and that makes sense for that type of kit. Conversely, the great teacher Freddy Gruber convinced Neil Peart to switch to traditional grip and there has been criticism that he is not able to go at the kit in the way he had when he played matched grip. The most relevant thing to which grip to employ, then, has to do with how the kit is set up -- and the type of music.

That's a great point about the kit set up. It's interesting that you mentioned Neil Peart. While I respect his ability to rock with the best, he has trouble really swinging. The Burning for Buddy recording is a good example of not swinging. How long has Peart been playing traditional?? Of course, Buddy's rock groves had an underlying swing feel to them too. Your point about kit set up and musical style is a good one.

Edited February 28, 2004 by oldtimedrummer