kstein Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 Hmmm. Very interesting topic. Not sure how to chime in without tooting my horn...so let's start there. While the "big boys" were sorting out how they feel about women, the then "Class A" corps had a tremendous amount of women in the horn line, drum line (snare line included) and very noticeably on the podium. I started in 1978 as a baritone player in Class A. In 1980, I moved to Drum Major. (This was for a terrific little group from northern NJ made up of folks from all the corps that were folding at that time (Valley Grenadiers, Muchachos, Dynamics, Royalaires, Imperial Knights, etc.) - nearly a daily event. This group was known as Fantasia III.) In 1983, I became the DM for the Bayonne Bridgemen. In 1985, the first DM for Star of Indiana. My friends tell me I'm the only DM - male or female - to lead two different corps into Finals. Not sure if that's true, but I had a wonderful, difficult, fun, maddening, crazy experience with both groups, and I'm honored to have known and marched with the many outstanding corpsmates in all of these fine organizations. And, for the record, as hard as it was to be a very young woman (15) in front of a corps whose average age was probably closer to 20, I think the ladies in the drumline had it the hardest, at times. The testosterone, chest thumping attitude that seemed to be pervasive in good drumlines in those days had to be tough to endure, day in and day out. Cheers! Karen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluerifleboi Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 If you can, you should look to get in touch with Marleta Mathews who was on staff with the bluecoats for the past 4 years. She Marched in the 27th lancers, and State street Review back in the day. She has been in the colorguard and Drum Corps activity for so Long. She is currently on staff with Center Grove HS. Defently try to get a hold of her. I am sure she can give you a lot of insite on Women in Drum Corps, and a woman who is still teaching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byline Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 Sue It was a general complaint that they were corrupting SCV's traditions (that the musical lines were all male and they were changing it, blah blah blah). Some guard members had even gone so far to insist that three follow the guard hair requirements (I don't recall the details but they wanted them to put their hair up a certain way under their hats). Interesting. I guess both sides of the gender line were so firmly entrenched in their traditions that they couldn't see past them. For the gals in the guard, they must've seen it as defending their turf of "honor" as the only female section in the corps, while the all-male sections were defending their turf in much the same way. Oh, well. Just goes to prove, once again, what a good friend once said: "We like to believe our own press." For those who believe in the "If women ran the world" mantra (and I know a bunch of people, male and female, who would), this is a classic case in point that it wouldn't be all rosy and nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MsBusDriver Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 Look, Guys in the Hornline and Drumline and Girls in the Colorguard was "just the way it was" for members of SCV, from the inception of the Corps until the first female was let into the "Guys" line, just as it was "the way it was" for Kilties, Madison and Cavies to have all guys. It was what we knew (and loved) because it was our identity or way of "being", if you will, when we were basically "nothing" and then became "something". It was what we were used to. We won Championships and respect with that particular formula. In the early early 70s I don't think that it ever crossed our minds that females would make it, or even try to get into the Hornline and Drumline. And considering that back in those days, people marched for years and years with the same Corps, I'm sure that those who complained about the changes were upset because what they "knew" and "loved" was changing! And guess what? CHANGE is HARD (in case you haven't noticed here at DCP ), but I'm sure they finally accepted it and moved on. I have the utmost respect for any female that marched in the horn and drumlines those early years at SCV and for those who have followed. I'm sure it wasn't a walk in the park. They obviously had talent and GUTS to make their way into a Corps whos "Tradition" was not conducive to them marching there. I'm just happy that we got such talented people and that they WANTED to march in SCV. They could have gone elsewhere you know. So there it is...Girls RULE!! :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lindap Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 (edited) Excerpt from the Scarborough Drum Corps Parents Association newsletter. "At the Jan. 20th 1972 Board of Directors meeting the following motions were passed. (1) In an attempt to stimulate growth of numbers within the Junior "A" horn line, it was moved by Mr. __ and seconded by Mr. __ to change the makeup of the Princemen horn line from all male to male and female. The motion was passed 4 to 1. (2) The organization will once again sponsor a Scarborough Fair Drum Corps show in 1972." (I intepret this as not having enough members for our corps.) We did get some female horn players that year. The addition of female drummers, however, took much longer, if it ever did. Seneca Princemen merged with Toronto Optimists to become Seneca Optimists late 1975. I was in the colour guard but in April 1972, I became drum major. I felt awkward because I had no musical training other than choir. I would have liked to be with another drum major like that of St. Rita's. One advantage of being drum major was that I could see and hear the whole performance. I became a colour guard instructor. I fortunately had a peer, Watkins Glen Squires drum major, Barb Cullen. Photo from 1973 (shakos and aussies together). Joined Oakland Crusaders for the 1976 season and marched guard, flag. Had a wonderful, rewarding experience with this corps. 1977 with the Alberta All Girls. I had met Ralph Hardimon on many occasions, a very nice person and passionate about percussion. Obviously, we had no gender issues with an all girls drum corps. Yet, there was something missing. I asked Mike Duffy if I could try to play baritone in 1978-79. I tried but didn't continue. In 1979, we toured, saw DCI finals in Birmingham and continued to Florida. I played cymbals. It was neat to play in a drum line. I too have great respect for horn and drum lines. The people on this forum are also an inspiration to me. Thanks for letting me 'talk'. Take care, all. Edit, 1979 was the last year for Alberta All Girls drum corps but Winter Guard? (we were called the Northern Lights for a while) ... that's another story and another forum. Edited October 6, 2007 by lindap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lindap Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 I started in 1978 as a baritone player in Class A. In 1980, I moved to Drum Major. (This was for a terrific little group from northern NJ made up of folks from all the corps that were folding at that time (Valley Grenadiers, Muchachos, Dynamics, Royalaires, Imperial Knights, etc.) - nearly a daily event. This group was known as Fantasia III.)In 1983, I became the DM for the Bayonne Bridgemen. In 1985, the first DM for Star of Indiana. Karen I liked your post. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byline Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 Wow, Linda, you've had quite the diverse drum corps career! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byline Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 In the early early 70s I don't think that it ever crossed our minds that females would make it, or even try to get into the Hornline and Drumline. And considering that back in those days, people marched for years and years with the same Corps, I'm sure that those who complained about the changes were upset because what they "knew" and "loved" was changing! And guess what? CHANGE is HARD (in case you haven't noticed here at DCP ), but I'm sure they finally accepted it and moved on. I understand your point. I guess the thing I don't fully understand is the interpersonal dynamics of it. (And this happens with any form of change, not just the one we're talking about here.) If it is accepted that females will march in the drum line -- or guys will march in the guard -- when that's never happened before, then the people for whom those changes are made shouldn't be ostracized, penalized, whatever. Yet we, as a society -- and that includes our little drum corps society -- often place the blame on those people. And we try to create these rules that essentially punish them for being in that position of change. I know that we're talking about the context of the times, and . But I've also witnessed people treated badly simply because people were lashing out against a particular change. And, frankly, I'm sure I've done that. Now, in hindsight, I recognize that I simply wasn't strong enough within myself not to feel threatened by what was a very reasonable and positive change. Sometimes it just doesn't pay to want things the way they've always been, just because they've always been that way. "Tradition" tends to get overused as an excuse to avoid change for the better. By the same token, I've never been a fan of change for the sake of change, so there definitely is a balance. But I hate to see people get hurt in the process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
^Michael^ Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 (edited) I have great respect for the women of drum corps - no matter what section or part. Heck - I met wife number 1 and wife number in drum corps - #1 as marching members of the Charioteers in 1972-1975 and #2 as staff members of Memphis Blues Brass Band in 1982. Soon to be wife #3 (and the final one) was not drum corps knowledgeable when we met, but has become a great fan and supporter this year following me around to several shows and drum corps functions with the Cadets! She also has made the effort to "educate" herself about the activity - both historically and contemporarily. I'm very excited about the coming years, growing old with another great drum corps woman! I've had the honor of knowing many great women in drum corps over the past 36 years and can honestly say that each one was an extraordinarily strong, talented and passionate woman who was/is a credit to the activity we love. Respectfully, Michael D Terry Woodstock, GA Edited October 5, 2007 by ^Michael^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lindap Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 On a previous post I said we folded. No, did not fold and correction made. I had a 'blonde' or rather 'grey' moment. Seneca Princemen merged with Toronto Optimists to become Seneca Optimists. De La Salle Oakland merged with Etobicoke Crusaders to become Oakland Crusaders. Both corps were DCI finalists in 1976. Now where did I put my glasses?... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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