Valve Rotor Soprano

[jminton]

A student that I work with has purchased a valve rotor soprano, but he needs a fingering chart for it. If anyone has one, or knows where I can get one, I would greatly appreciate a copy.

[JimF-LowBari]

(Quick send before the server crashes again... :sshh: )

http://www.dynastyband.com/education/

Problem is I can't look at this chart because my PC just got fixed and can't read any pdf files (where's my Adobe disk???). I used DEGs chart two years ago when I picked up the horn after 19 years and needed a refresher and it helped.

Never played Bb bugles but have been told it's the same fingerings for the G piston/rotor horn. Only problem is you can't play Ab (2/3) or that other note (forget which) that has the 2/3 fingering.

OOOOOPPPPPSSSSS - 1 is piston and 2 is rotor b**bs

Edited July 5, 2005 by JimF-xWSMBari

[bd5times]

I've got a piston rotar soprano.

Piston ~ 1st valve

Rotar ~ 2nd valve

[84BDsop]

Actually, there are 4 notes a 2 valve G bugle (2 piston OR P/R) can't play...D below the staff, C# below the staff, Eb in the staff, and AB in the staff.

On a 2 piston you can play the Ab above the staff with the 1st valve and throwing tghe 1st valve tuning slide all the way in....but I don't know if that option existed for the P/R...

As for the valve pattern...the horizontal pistin is valve 1, the rotor is valve 2 (yeah it's backwards....the piston came long before the rotor)

[G-horns]

Actually, there are 4 notes a 2 valve G bugle (2 piston OR P/R) can't play...D below the staff, C# below the staff, Eb in the staff, and AB in the staff.

On a 2 piston you can play the Ab above the staff with the 1st valve and throwing tghe 1st valve tuning slide all the way in....but I don't know if that option existed for the P/R...

As for the valve pattern...the horizontal pistin is valve 1, the rotor is valve 2 (yeah it's backwards....the piston came long before the rotor)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You've got all the answer you need, but here's some background...

The Olds Ultratone model has a slide combined with the rotor. If working properly (some don't) you push the slide in for A-flat (along with the piston being in). The slide is spring-loaded so it should pop back out when you release it. If you want to tune the open notes on the Ultratone, you use the threaded adjustment on the slide associated with the rotor. I don't know of any other model of horn that has this slide feature. (Arrangers would stay away from A-flats if possible.)

History lesson: Originally, single valve bugles were constructed such that pressing the piston would lower the pitch a fourth (i.e. G-D or Bb-F). The rules didn't allow for any second valve. As those familiar with modern intonation can surmise, the intonation of those G-D horns was awful. Then, somewhere in the mid to late 1950's, those Bostonians got the idea to take a few thousandths off the tuning slide so it could be pulled out easily while playing, thereby lowering the pitch by a halftone. This also added the sophistication to adjust for intonation problems by pulling the slide a bit to compensate. "Lipping" notes was no longer as necessary. Getzen incorporated the "slip-slide" into their design, and a number of corps went to valve-slide horns.

The biggest problem with the slip-slides was they would jam, get out of line, etc. (trombonists know what I'm talking about). So the second valve was added (a rotor valve to appease the rule makers), to have a more durable method of pitch change. Rotors were designed to lower the pitch by a halftone or fulltone (F# or F) for sopranos, and for baritones there was a rotor available to lower the pitch 1-1/2 tones. The astute brass arranger could have horns fitted with different rotors and, while no one horn had a full chromatic series, the section had facility to play any chord necessary by assigning the notes to the proper instruments. Intonation problems were still an issue, because the piston valve lowered the pitch by a fourth.

Then, in 1967, some brass people convinced the rule makers that it would be okay to drop the "valve change to D" from the rulebook. The result was a valve/rotor horn utilizing the existing F# rotor and a valve placing the horn in F when pressed. I also saw a number of "slip-slide" conversions that used the existing slide and shortened the valve tubing, making a hybrid. Rotors didn't turn out to be as durable as originally hoped, so eventually the rules were changed to allow for two valves and the logical shift to vertical pistons.

Yea, I know, TMI

[84BDsop]

Yea, I know, TMI

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, no....I found it quote informative! Thanks!

[JimF-LowBari]

Add to the slip slide problems, dealling with a horn that hadn't been played for a few years and stored in a "less than ideal" place. Think the piston/slide I had to play for a few months was in someones garage and the slide grease had the consistency of silly putty. Blasted thing mashed my chops everytime I pulled the slide back. Thing had a few dings in the slide also. :sshh:

[jminton]

Thanks for the information.

[KevinDCAChamp]

Actually, there are 4 notes a 2 valve G bugle (2 piston OR P/R) can't play...D below the staff, C# below the staff, Eb in the staff, and AB in the staff.

On a 2 piston you can play the Ab above the staff with the 1st valve and throwing tghe 1st valve tuning slide all the way in....but I don't know if that option existed for the P/R...

As for the valve pattern...the horizontal pistin is valve 1, the rotor is valve 2 (yeah it's backwards....the piston came long before the rotor)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you are talking a G horn (which valve/rotors where), it is the Eb below the staff that can't be played. The Eb on the staff is played with the rotor down.

And that is only if it isn't a french horn, it could play the Ab on the staff with just the valve, and anomoly that made that horn very usefull to arrangers. To make it even more fun to play, lots of notes, like the D on the staff could be played open or with the valve. Or if you were Pepe Notaro you "didn't need no buttons", you just lipped every note.......

Guido

[84BDsop]

If you are talking a G horn (which valve/rotors where), it is the Eb below the staff that can't be played.  The Eb on the staff is played with the rotor down. 

And that is only if it isn't a french horn, it could play the Ab on the staff with just the valve, and anomoly that made that horn very usefull to arrangers.  To make it even more fun to play, lots of notes, like the D on the staff could be played open or with the valve.  Or if you were Pepe Notaro you "didn't need no buttons", you just lipped every note.......

Guido

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ahhhh....memories of Pepe teaching Empire (in that gravelly voice) "Lemme tell ya somet'in', son..."

Funny thing...I was describing him at a Dream rehersal this year...the time when Empire was doing a straight line rotation in "Sing, Sing, Sing"...he described it this way.

(insert gravelly voice)

"Pretend there's a metal rod...and it's goin' t'rough yer skull....the rod's rotatin' and yer goin' right along wit it...stay on da rod....don't fall off da rod!!!"

The funny thing?? One of our older members walked by and said "That's Pepe Nataro, isn;t it?"

Sigh....I miss him!

Edited September 8, 2005 by 84BDsop