Lieut. General Effect Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 (edited) Actually, the timpani example is a prime piece of the evidence that drum corps has evolved over time...In the 60's, corps laid basses on their sides, took off the bottom head, attached them together as double or triple bases....to emulate a timpani sound.... Then marching timps were introduced to REALLY create the timpani sound... Eventually they were grounded and the idea of the pit was introduced. This all took a number of years...evolution. Mike <{POST_SNAPBACK}> True, but my point was in response to the poster above that implies that because things are " innovative " or " new ", they will be seen as a " classic " some day. Many things that a few years back that were " innovative " had the same degree of support among the progressive and " open to change " fans at that time. But clearly, they were failed experiments according to most people today. The lesson here is that some of the things that are being done in Drum Corps today, for example some" obscure " musical offerings by some Corps, might be seen as the low point in the activity a decade or two down the road. In my own personal opinion, DCI Corps of recent years have advanced the activity tremendously in the visual arena. The Cavaliers are a perfect example of that. That said, although the muscianship level has advanced from earlier generations, it is questionable whether today's Corps have advanced the activity to the level that appeals to the general audience member that perhaps does not have the well trained ear. Perhaps the next " evolutionary " stage will find the activity to have properly blended the visual advances made with musical offerings that will appeal to both the marching member, the trained musician AND the general fan who is perhaps taking in this activity for the first time. Without naming names, there are a few Corps that seem to put the audience as a priority when they put their show together in the off season. There are a few others whose design teams have publically stated that the audience is way down the list of considered things when the show is designed in the off season. Should these Corps advance in placements, it may bode well for those members, but it calls into question whether DCI is giving lip service that it wants to generate popular appeal and grow the audience base. From my perspective, that can not be done. DCI will either move toward a more populist way, or it will remain a niche activity. There is nothing wrong with being a niche activity if so chosen. But we are kidding ourselves if we think we can grow the audience base in the future with musical offerings, while technically proficent, are not done in a more populist vein.( Just my 2 cents worth mind you. ) Edited August 4, 2005 by Lieut. General Effect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 True, but my point was in response to the poster above that implies that because things are " innovative " or " new ", they will be seen as a " classic " some day. Many things that a few years back that were " innovative " had the same degree of support among the progressive and " open to change " fans at that time. But clearly, they were failed experiments according to most people today. The lesson here is that some of the things that are being done in Drum Corps today, for example some" obscure " musical offerings by some Corps, might be seen as the low point in the activity a decade or two down the road. Oops..sorry...I was using the timpani example to counter Dave's (DrumCorpFan) assertion that drum corps is not evolutionary, as I (and some others) have postulated. You would have had no way of knowing what I was talknig about! :P In my own personal opinion, DCI Corps of recent years have advanced the activity tremendously in the visual arena. The Cavaliers are a perfect example of that. That said, although the muscianship level has advanced from earlier generations, it is questionable whether today's Corps have advanced the activity to the level that appeals to the general audience member that perhaps does not have the well trained ear. Perhaps the next " evolutionary " stage will find the activity to have properly blended the visual advances made with musical offerings that will appeal to both the marching member, the trained musician AND the general fan who is perhaps taking in this activity for the first time. Without naming names, there are a few Corps that seem to put the audience as a priority when they put their show together in the off season. There are a few others whose design teams have publically stated that the audience is way down the list of considered things when the show is designed in the off season. Should these Corps advance in placements, it may bode well for those members, but it calls into question whether DCI is giving lip service that it wants to generate popular appeal and grow the audience base. From my perspective, that can not be done. DCI will either move toward a more populist way, or it will remain a niche activity. There is nothing wrong with being a niche activity if so chosen. But we are kidding ourselves if we think we can grow the audience base in the future with musical offerings, while technically proficent, are not done in a more populist vein.( Just my 2 cents worth mind you. ) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> IMO.... Drum corps has ALWAYS been a niche activity, and it will remain so. Even when we were playing pop tunes back in the Garden State corps I marched with, my friends had no idea why I'd ever want to do this 'band thing'. Plus, what some may consider esoteric, others do not think that way. A lot of folks consider stuff like Holsinger to be esoteric and they don't like it...HS and college concert bands play that type of stuff every day. The kids with the HS band I arrange for were dying to do "To Tame the Perilous Skies" on the field when they played it in concert band. We went a different route, but you get the point. This year we are doing "Ghost Train"...hardly popular melodic music...yet our kids are totally excited about it. It's the type of music these folks are accustomed to. OTOH, you have corps doing Gershwin, Dvorak, Meatloaf, Broadway, etc....I think the mix today is just fine. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medeabrass Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 I think you missed the whole point. Which that point is tradition. Drum corps's roots are a very strong and dominant military background. Most of that military tradition is lost in today's activity. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I marched in a military band in college that has maintained it's military tradition for over 100 years, and drum corps of the 70's hardly resembled true military marching at all. I mean, there were no counter marches in drum corps in the 70's. The drum corps faced the sidelines in the 70's (that's not military in my opinion). Drum corps in the 70's did arcs from time to time. Arcs are not military. Jazz music is not military. Marching timpanies are not military. Granted, I think the drum corps of this era and earlier had military "presence" in droves. I bet there were a lot of really old time drum corps fans who hated 70's drum corps because it had lost the military tradition of their generation. I am not saying that there hasn't been any military presence lost from the past to today. In fact, I wish there was more snapped turns, popped horn moves, polished low quarter shoes with taps, polished brass on the uniform and less dancing etc(even when I was marching I wished it was more like this). I guess the point is, your generation changed drum corps just as much as the current generation. Things such as baritones and contras were not in original drum corps. There are many more examples but I hope you see where I'm coming from. I like many things about the 70's and wish we still had many of those things now. I am so thankful for the ground work that everyone laid out for me before I marched but I'm also glad that we evolved from some of the things that were prevalent then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lieut. General Effect Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 (edited) Oops..sorry...I was using the timpani example to counter Dave's (DrumCorpFan) assertion that drum corps is not evolutionary, as I (and some others) have postulated. You would have had no way of knowing what I was talknig about! :P IMO.... Drum corps has ALWAYS been a niche activity, and it will remain so. Even when we were playing pop tunes back in the Garden State corps I marched with, my friends had no idea why I'd ever want to do this 'band thing'. Plus, what some may consider esoteric, others do not think that way. A lot of folks consider stuff like Holsinger to be esoteric and they don't like it...HS and college concert bands play that type of stuff every day. The kids with the HS band I arrange for were dying to do "To Tame the Perilous Skies" on the field when they played it in concert band. We went a different route, but you get the point. This year we are doing "Ghost Train"...hardly popular melodic music...yet our kids are totally excited about it. It's the type of music these folks are accustomed to. OTOH, you have corps doing Gershwin, Dvorak, Meatloaf, Broadway, etc....I think the mix today is just fine. Mike <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You make some valid points. I've always wondered though why so many genre's of music seem to be untouched by Drum Corps. Why is " Rock " for instance avoided as an avenue to explore ? Heaven forbid......even........( gulp)...." Country Music ? Or " Rap " ? " top 40 " ? Even " Alternative Rock " ? even " March Music " ?Why are these more popular genres so out of favor ? There has been some overtures to these genre's, but only in a very cursory way. It seems to me that Corps have done the Classical Music and Jazz and even 50's , 60's Folk for WAYYYY too long. I'm looking for REAL innovation. I'd love to see a Corps break the mold and do more " popular " genres. No, not Brittney and that ilk, but lets face it, Jethro Tull ( Cadets ) and the New Christy Minstrels ( Carolina Crown ) and " Classical Gas " Crossmen , and Bohemian tributes, etc, are to the general audience members so ....60' ish . Now the Cadets are doing a show that leaves some scratching their head, while every LSD Acid Head is calling out " groovy ". What's with the recent attraction of the Dead Composers, and the 60ish type music? Can't we find some mainstream popular musical genres to explore that are more into the the 21st century than music from the 13th to the 20th centuries ? Just asking mind you, not trying to flame Edited August 4, 2005 by Lieut. General Effect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
77kingsmensnare Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 IMO....Yes, the current generation should make sure that ...as admins and staff they provide the very best experience they can for their members and audience. ...as members they try to absorb the wonderful experiences they get as a member of a very special group of people, both musical and "life". Mike <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Holy Crap!!! is that really you Mike? This is the 1st time I've EVER agreed with Mike! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
^Michael^ Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 I've never used this smilie before, but the above warrents it.... Mike <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thank you Mike! I consider this high praise, indeed, coming from someone who has my utmost respect for his open minded, unfailingly civil and rational posts! You are someone who represents us "old phartes" with evenhandedness and class. Thanks for that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DrumCorpFan Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 All these rants and complaints about modern drum corps tick me off to no end, but I almost never reply to it, because most people never bring the members into it. But when this girl who never marched drum corps challenged the dedication, pride, musicianship, and even discipline of the members, I finally snapped. I don't know what's worse: getting that from a 70s alum who thinks he's better than me, or getting that from somebody who never marched in the first place. Either way it's incredibly insulting.I still maintain that SHAME ON YOU to AnaheimAlumni (the one who posted this girl's thread here). If you wanted to display your displeasure for the direction of DCI, you could have posted something with less rediculous fallacies in it. OR certainly something that didn't insult the performers. Were you just trying to throw gasoline on the fire? You know what would really add validity to those comments of the original poster? Let's hear somebody that marched 2000 to present day agree with what she said. Then I'll be impressed. I received a warning for name calling. Fair enough, I broke the rules. I had a few beers in me and didn't know when to shut up. But that original post was a personal attack too. It didn't have any official name calling in it, so it was within the rules, but don't be surprised at me or anyone else getting riled up by it. And about my controversal reply: You and I both recognize that I was not using the most diplomatic method of displaying my feelings on the matter, but try and look past the 'idiot and moron' words and see what I was saying (yes felixh, I know you didn't like that, you mentioned it 20 times)! I mean, come on!! She was criticizing corps for making souvaniers a huge priority!! You have to realize how rediculous that is. Souvaniers are not for making people rich, they are for keeping the corps on the road. Many corps would fold without that much needed income. And money issues aside, it's fun for the fans! How many people here don't like browsing the souvie trailors after the show? Oh, and one final message to those who opposed me on this thread. I'm not as different from you as you may think. I signed that petition in Denver.... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I don't oppose you, I oppose name calling which only "throws gasoline on the fire." In fact, I agree with you that kids today have the same pride, dedication and musicianship as we did "back in the day." I have never challanged that. I hope you have read that in my previous posts. I marched in the late '70s and '80's and I don't agree with her statement. If I marched in the last five years, I would be ticked also. I would however refrain from name-calling, which I believe you will also do from now on (thank you). I also agree that souvie sales are vital to the survival of a drum corps. A large portion of my volunteering has gone to helping souvie sales. Heck, the souvie people rarely get to watch a show...that's dedication. So, the girl AA quoted needs some education on how corps operate. One way for her to get that education is to post on places like DCP and learn from those that know. In any rate, she is entitled to her opinion which is based on the information and experiences she has had to this point. No one can take that away, whether we agree or disagree. However, as she gathers more information and experiences, she may just change her mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 Holy Crap!!! is that really you Mike? This is the 1st time I've EVER agreed with Mike! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Now I owe FOUR beers.... :) Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 Thank you Mike! I consider this high praise, indeed, coming from someone who has my utmost respect for his open minded, unfailingly civil and rational posts!You are someone who represents us "old phartes" with evenhandedness and class. Thanks for that! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hhmmmm....now it's 5 One more and I'll pick up a 6-pack! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DrumCorpFan Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 I've never used this smilie before, but the above warrents it.... Mike <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, I have to thank ^michael^ for calling me to young to be a legacy fan or an old fart. I've got 9 years to go, woohoo! B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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