Matthew Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 As a director of 4 corps, I am constantly thinking of ways we could improve our organization (DCP-I). I have talked with other directors, and we share many of the same ideas, hold some of our own, and disagree with a few already in place. We definitely need to start thinking about this for the upcoming off season and next live season. A few of my ideas: -Put a cap on the number of Division I corps competing. Current Division I directors would have priority when choosing what corps they will have compete; but will only be allowed to have 2 competing Division I corps. Which means, if we cap it at 25-30 Division I corps, some may not get to become Division I. I really think there should be a cap at about 25-30 Division I corps for this. It will save Steve and Jeff time, and they will be able to better serve us. And it would be much closer to the real DCI. -Instead of having a fantasy styled tour schedule, why not base our schedule off the current schedule. This will make it easier for us to follow the corps we choose in our caption choices, and it just makes logical sense. For corps who want to do over seas tours, I suppose there could be a bid for it to see who gets to do that. But I would like to see us go to a more "real" format for shows. There are enough DCI shows to still be able to have a great fantasy season. -Instead of having an East, West, North, South, etc.. Regional, why not just use the current Regional format in the real DCI. This way, we have all of our fantasy corps competing with each other more throughout the season, giving us a chance to see where we are "slotted" and such. This would force us to provide a better tour schedule, that would make us coordinate logistically a better schedule. -Start the real season when the REAL season begins. I really didn't understand the purpose of using generated scores for the first night of competition. It gives an unofficial "read" --we may as well wait and just start when DCI starts. -I'm for scores being generated, as long as I can see why and how. However, I would rather just see the score remain the same. So if I choose Regiment for a caption and they arent competing one night, I would rather their score just remain the same as their previous score, rather than coming up with a number that is off (either too high or low), keeping it the same will do us much better, rather than giving us a false number that is way out there (14.567--you would never see that on a recap). -If corps directors aren't going to be active with their corps, then they should get a warning. Not engaging in your corps captions and changes, should result in disqualification from the organization. Steve and Jeff put a lot of time into this, and it's a shame that many of the directors start the season, and then just let their corps ride... Hey, if you want to be that corps--Go to FDCI. I really think we should strengthen that rule though, making directors be involved. Yeah this is fantasy, but we still incorporate real things. And most directors are involved. Those are just a few of my ideas... Please share yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex VK DM Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 I have an idea about show scores. On the fantasy schedule there are about 4 to 5 shows a day. Just like in the “REAL” drum corps world, there are different judges at each show. That makes comparing scores from one show to the next irrelevant. What I’m getting at is have our circuit have the same thing. Of the shows for the day, the breakout can be as such: Show 1 = -.50 Show 2 = -.25 Show 3 = Even Show 4 = +.25 Show 5 = +.50 This would be up to Steve or Jeff as to what show got which judging panel. The idea is that you have no idea who is beating whom until you meet at the same show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bssop97 Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 (edited) I like Bill's idea... It would be better then something at random and for off/seasons it might prevent a tie. Here are my ideas... #1. This one I like but I'm sure many would hate. Corps points based off of last season placement. Finalist 143 Semis 142 Quarter 141 New and Prelims 140 In DCI div I stronger corps draw better talent. The points are like talent, finalist draw more talent so why can't fantasy corps? Besides you can be a finalist with less points... Look at St. Paul Scouts (They are top 12 with div II points).... You have to build your corps. This is for Div I only... Div II/III changes yearly in DCI as it should in DCP-I #2. Get rid of the .2 per show bonus.... Instead go with set deadlines. You start the year with 140... First 2 weeks you are stuck with what you have... On Jun 30th All corps change captions on the same day and add 1 point. One week before regionals... Add 1 point. All corps/ same day Have a big regional... ala DCI Southwest.... One week before it... add a point All/corps same day Two weeks later... One more. All corps/same day Before finals one last point... All corps/same day This will prevent cheating... I call copying corps at the top cheating, it is what it is. You mess up early, your not going to win BUT you can still do well. Next season you learn from your mistakes.... Like you staff gets seasoned. Also Jeff/Steve only change everyones caption 5 times a season plus finals week. Limit caption change to 3 each time... I liked the first part of the season for this reason. You have to plan you changes out. No more drastic make over/ it is unrealistic.... No offense to Brass Abalze but what we have going right now is like Southwind beating Cadets this Saturday in Allentown. Edited August 3, 2005 by bssop97 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galen Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 This one I like but I'm sure many would hate. Corps points based off of last season placement. Finalist 143 Semis 142 Quarter 141 New and Prelims 140 In DCI div I stronger corps draw better talent. The points are like talent, finalist draw more talent so why can't fantasy corps? Besides you can be a finalist with less points... Look at St. Paul Scouts (They are top 12 with div II points).... You have to build your corps. This is for Div I only... Div II/III changes yearly in DCI as it should in DCP-I #2. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think we considered that before this season, but it didn't pass. No reason we can't try it again next season though. If at all possible, I'd like to see a maximum limit put on the number of corps that can enter each show. This would hopefully eliminate having a show with just 1 or 2 corps at it and give everybody better access to their competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburstall Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 (edited) Now my thoughts on these....and yes, I did think of these at one time. As a director of 4 corps, I am constantly thinking of ways we could improve our organization (DCP-I). I have talked with other directors, and we share many of the same ideas, hold some of our own, and disagree with a few already in place.We definitely need to start thinking about this for the upcoming off season and next live season. A few of my ideas: -Put a cap on the number of Division I corps competing. Current Division I directors would have priority when choosing what corps they will have compete; but will only be allowed to have 2 competing Division I corps. Which means, if we cap it at 25-30 Division I corps, some may not get to become Division I. I really think there should be a cap at about 25-30 Division I corps for this. It will save Steve and Jeff time, and they will be able to better serve us. And it would be much closer to the real DCI. I have no problem with doing umpteen corps. The more the merrier. I want this open to anyone and everyone. So if we have 100 corps one season, that's awesome. ^OO^ -Instead of having a fantasy styled tour schedule, why not base our schedule off the current schedule. This will make it easier for us to follow the corps we choose in our caption choices, and it just makes logical sense. For corps who want to do over seas tours, I suppose there could be a bid for it to see who gets to do that. But I would like to see us go to a more "real" format for shows. There are enough DCI shows to still be able to have a great fantasy season. Problem with this is it doesn't allow for different touring, afterall DCI does have a problem of lack of corps with creates a lack of shows. I try to tweek the schedule every "season" to allow different venues, esp. near the championship week. I'd also like to try to get more "international" tours going. Japan was a success (more than I expected) but Europe bumbed me out. -Instead of having an East, West, North, South, etc.. Regional, why not just use the current Regional format in the real DCI. This way, we have all of our fantasy corps competing with each other more throughout the season, giving us a chance to see where we are "slotted" and such. This would force us to provide a better tour schedule, that would make us coordinate logistically a better schedule. I ain't changing this. I still want to have a first tour be more regional and second tour be national. -Start the real season when the REAL season begins. I really didn't understand the purpose of using generated scores for the first night of competition. It gives an unofficial "read" --we may as well wait and just start when DCI starts. Let the old man have some kind of fun. :( -I'm for scores being generated, as long as I can see why and how. However, I would rather just see the score remain the same. So if I choose Regiment for a caption and they arent competing one night, I would rather their score just remain the same as their previous score, rather than coming up with a number that is off (either too high or low), keeping it the same will do us much better, rather than giving us a false number that is way out there (14.567--you would never see that on a recap). Ummm...it took a season for me to come up with the second half of the formula for the generated scores. This add a bit of randomness to the generated score so one can never figure out if thier caption will go up or down. Plus keeping the same caption score for days on end really makes it boring. "The real corps won't be performing for a week, so I know I"ll have a 14.7 for the next week." This format keeps people on the edge of thier seats. It also makes it a tad harder to try to make you directors try to "forecast" your scores. -If corps directors aren't going to be active with their corps, then they should get a warning. Not engaging in your corps captions and changes, should result in disqualification from the organization. Steve and Jeff put a lot of time into this, and it's a shame that many of the directors start the season, and then just let their corps ride... Hey, if you want to be that corps--Go to FDCI. I really think we should strengthen that rule though, making directors be involved. Yeah this is fantasy, but we still incorporate real things. And most directors are involved. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I agree here. You put together a corps, you need to run it like a director. But you know, they have only themselves to blame if thier corps isn't doing well. I know who are the active ones and that makes this fun. If more were involved I know the Fantasy Drum Corps paper would have been better. Edited August 4, 2005 by sburstall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburstall Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 I have an idea about show scores. On the fantasy schedule there are about 4 to 5 shows a day. Just like in the “REAL” drum corps world, there are different judges at each show. That makes comparing scores from one show to the next irrelevant.What I’m getting at is have our circuit have the same thing. Of the shows for the day, the breakout can be as such: Show 1 = -.50 Show 2 = -.25 Show 3 = Even Show 4 = +.25 Show 5 = +.50 This would be up to Steve or Jeff as to what show got which judging panel. The idea is that you have no idea who is beating whom until you meet at the same show. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hmmm...that's an interesting idea. I like it. Let me mull it over. BTW, anything dealing with the "judging"/scores are done by Jeff and I. No rule changes can be done by the directors....unless either Jeff or I do something that is blatantly wrong (like I purposely add or subtract points). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburstall Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 I like Bill's idea... It would be better then something at random and for off/seasons it might prevent a tie. Here are my ideas... #1. This one I like but I'm sure many would hate. Corps points based off of last season placement. Finalist 143 Semis 142 Quarter 141 New and Prelims 140 In DCI div I stronger corps draw better talent. The points are like talent, finalist draw more talent so why can't fantasy corps? Besides you can be a finalist with less points... Look at St. Paul Scouts (They are top 12 with div II points).... You have to build your corps. No, I nipped this one fast when it first came up two seasons ago. I want all corps to start off the same number of points. This is for Div I only... Div II/III changes yearly in DCI as it should in DCP-I#2. Get rid of the .2 per show bonus.... Instead go with set deadlines. You start the year with 140... First 2 weeks you are stuck with what you have... On Jun 30th All corps change captions on the same day and add 1 point. One week before regionals... Add 1 point. All corps/ same day Have a big regional... ala DCI Southwest.... One week before it... add a point All/corps same day Two weeks later... One more. All corps/same day Before finals one last point... All corps/same day This will prevent cheating... I call copying corps at the top cheating, it is what it is. You mess up early, your not going to win BUT you can still do well. Next season you learn from your mistakes.... Like you staff gets seasoned. Also Jeff/Steve only change everyones caption 5 times a season plus finals week. Limit caption change to 3 each time... I liked the first part of the season for this reason. You have to plan you changes out. No more drastic make over/ it is unrealistic.... No offense to Brass Abalze but what we have going right now is like Southwind beating Cadets this Saturday in Allentown. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'm agreeing here. The .2 is more of a headache than I had planned. I wanted something would give corps an improvement in their corps as they perform besides what comes from the real corps. Keep this alive and start a new topic about this in the post season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brass Ablaze Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 -Put a cap on the number of Division I corps competing. Current Division I directors would have priority when choosing what corps they will have compete; but will only be allowed to have 2 competing Division I corps. Which means, if we cap it at 25-30 Division I corps, some may not get to become Division I. I really think there should be a cap at about 25-30 Division I corps for this. It will save Steve and Jeff time, and they will be able to better serve us. And it would be much closer to the real DCI. hmm... Maybe not a cap per say but I can see a cap on the number of div 1 corps per director maybe. -Instead of having a fantasy styled tour schedule, why not base our schedule off the current schedule. This will make it easier for us to follow the corps we choose in our caption choices, and it just makes logical sense. For corps who want to do over seas tours, I suppose there could be a bid for it to see who gets to do that. But I would like to see us go to a more "real" format for shows. There are enough DCI shows to still be able to have a great fantasy season. I agree on this one. I think it we make it more complicated than it needs to be, we should just follow the same schedule IMHO. -Instead of having an East, West, North, South, etc.. Regional, why not just use the current Regional format in the real DCI. This way, we have all of our fantasy corps competing with each other more throughout the season, giving us a chance to see where we are "slotted" and such. This would force us to provide a better tour schedule, that would make us coordinate logistically a better schedule. See my last response :) -Start the real season when the REAL season begins. I really didn't understand the purpose of using generated scores for the first night of competition. It gives an unofficial "read" --we may as well wait and just start when DCI starts. AMEN! Generating the first scores is lame. We should wait until we get some real scores to work with. -I'm for scores being generated, as long as I can see why and how. However, I would rather just see the score remain the same. So if I choose Regiment for a caption and they arent competing one night, I would rather their score just remain the same as their previous score, rather than coming up with a number that is off (either too high or low), keeping it the same will do us much better, rather than giving us a false number that is way out there (14.567--you would never see that on a recap). I think that it should be generated as a logical trend for what will most likely be the score, not something with a "twist" in it. See my other thread about formula posibilities. -If corps directors aren't going to be active with their corps, then they should get a warning. Not engaging in your corps captions and changes, should result in disqualification from the organization. Steve and Jeff put a lot of time into this, and it's a shame that many of the directors start the season, and then just let their corps ride... Hey, if you want to be that corps--Go to FDCI. I really think we should strengthen that rule though, making directors be involved. Yeah this is fantasy, but we still incorporate real things. And most directors are involved. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> How do you gauge if they are following along? if they are making caption changes? If they are posting? What if they simply are not the kind of person to post about everything or maybe they don't want to make caption changes but are in fact checking on their scores every day? It's hard to determine this. Get rid of the .2 per show bonus.... Instead go with set deadlines. You start the year with 140... First 2 weeks you are stuck with what you have... On Jun 30th All corps change captions on the same day and add 1 point. One week before regionals... Add 1 point. All corps/ same day Have a big regional... ala DCI Southwest.... One week before it... add a point All/corps same day Two weeks later... One more. All corps/same day Before finals one last point... All corps/same day This will prevent cheating... I call copying corps at the top cheating, it is what it is. You mess up early, your not going to win BUT you can still do well. Next season you learn from your mistakes.... Like you staff gets seasoned. Also Jeff/Steve only change everyones caption 5 times a season plus finals week. Limit caption change to 3 each time... I liked the first part of the season for this reason. You have to plan you changes out. No more drastic make over/ it is unrealistic.... No offense to Brass Abalze but what we have going right now is like Southwind beating Cadets this Saturday in Allentown. I like this. It makes it more challenging and would make it a little but more realistic. As it stands now, the troopers could jump to first place in one day with changes and that to me is kind of silly. Look at me, my corp went from like 20 something to first overnight. I like this idea. This one I like but I'm sure many would hate. Corps points based off of last season placement. Finalist 143 Semis 142 Quarter 141 New and Prelims 140 In DCI div I stronger corps draw better talent. The points are like talent, finalist draw more talent so why can't fantasy corps? Besides you can be a finalist with less points... Look at St. Paul Scouts (They are top 12 with div II points).... You have to build your corps. I've got mixed feelings here. I see your point, and the idea is nice but ultimately we want to encourage people to play and I think this would make the same winners every year and um yeah I just don't think this will fly well. I have an idea about show scores. On the fantasy schedule there are about 4 to 5 shows a day. Just like in the “REAL” drum corps world, there are different judges at each show. That makes comparing scores from one show to the next irrelevant.What I’m getting at is have our circuit have the same thing. Of the shows for the day, the breakout can be as such: Show 1 = -.50 Show 2 = -.25 Show 3 = Even Show 4 = +.25 Show 5 = +.50 This would be up to Steve or Jeff as to what show got which judging panel. The idea is that you have no idea who is beating whom until you meet at the same show. I agree that we should try and change it up but I think the variance should be a randomly generated number between -0.3 and 0.3. And we should not know what the varriant number was for each particular show. Otherwise if we go by set amounts people can still go "Oh, I was in the +.5 show yesterday" and then adjust their score to still compare them. We need to not know what the variant amount was for each show so that we can't make the adjustments and compare. Additionally the varriant should not be just on the final score, it should be averaged into each individual caption. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Posted August 4, 2005 Author Share Posted August 4, 2005 Jeff, there is already a limit to the amount of Division I corps a director can have, and I believe it is 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburstall Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 (edited) I think that it should be generated as a logical trend for what will most likely be the score, not something with a "twist" in it. See my other thread about formula posibilities. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No...<_< FYI, FDCI is also based on the same line-fitting algorithm (as he has stated in the "nuts and bolts" section of his website). I just added the twist to ours. Edited August 4, 2005 by sburstall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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