East Coast Jazz going to D1?

[tubaman1321]

Well there are DIV 1 corps that won medals this year that had some moves in their show that allowed hard moves to be recovered by a park and blow section. So I don't think ECJ would have had a problem at all!!

[liebot]

not to be that guy; but i really doubt that ECJ could make semis.  Granted, they did win div 2., but did they have a Div 1 caliber book, both music and drill?  Player for player they were on of the best with spartens.  great soloists and such.  but would they're drill(files with grooving which hides errors) and some 2min and 10 secs of park and bark really hold any water with a judging community and audience that expects performers to march almost the whole show.

maybe im wrong.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is judging a corps performance by how long they march really effective? I think ECJ and Spartans both had Division 1 caliber shows, in fact I think their shows were a lot better than some top 12 Div 1 corps. There's much more to the quality of a show than whether or not they spend most of their time marching scatter drill (BD 96) or whether or not they park and blow for a decent amount of time (Cadets from 01-04). A show that is effective is effective, and park and blows are something that when used correctly can be effective.

[dcfan8005]

not to be that guy; but i really doubt that ECJ could make semis.  Granted, they did win div 2., but did they have a Div 1 caliber book, both music and drill?  Player for player they were on of the best with spartens.  great soloists and such.  but would they're drill(files with grooving which hides errors) and some 2min and 10 secs of park and bark really hold any water with a judging community and audience that expects performers to march almost the whole show.

maybe im wrong.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have a question -- why would hiding errors be seen as having "an easy book?" I've heard this before and it really makes no sense to me. You're only considered to have a "hard" drill if you can see more errors? If anything, I would think being able to design a textured drill with a minimal appearance of errors is a pretty good skill.

The designer for ECJ the past several years has had success in both Div II/III and Div 1. The last time Ed Devlin wrote for Div 1, Crossmen 2001, they finished 7th in visual, top 6 in ensemble visual. And in IMO they marched really well. Seems to me that ECJ could have been or could be visually competitive in Div 1.

[liebot]

I was just looking at a review of the Rome, NY show out of curiosity and just found this quote - thought I'd post it because of its relevance.

First on were East Coast Jazz from Malden, MA. I had never seem them

before. They are ranked #1 in Division II this season so this was a

good opportunity to see what a top D II corps is like...good size, 36

horns around 7 snares and 4 multi-toms plus a full pit. Very good

musically. These are not beginners, just a smaller corps than D I.

They played a lot of nice big band arrangements with good solo work. I

really liked their treatment of "Body and Soul". They march a drill

very reminiscent of the DI corps, just a little more limited with

respect to field coverage because of their smaller size.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hmm.. interesting

Edited August 20, 2005 by TTitans909

[waterarrow]

the devils advocate position that im trying to view from is this: yes they won, and i do not dissagree with high horns and the like becuase they played very well. my point is this: is the book that they put on the field, from both a visual and music standpoint create the same level of challenge to the individual peformer as in the corps making semis?

in div 2/3 the difficulty of a show has no bearing within the scoring. you could march 8 to 5 in a block going from on splitting and two extremlly cleanly and score very well (hyperbole) or even better than a corps with drill that is far more difficult (z pull, double helix) that has some dirt in it. the same holds true with music. dont get me wrong, perfection is the end goal; but you can polish a turd, but its still a turd (thats a joke, dont take it wrong).

i question wether or not the demands on the performer in most 2/3 shows is seriously up to par with div 1 semi's quality of show. im not trying to start anything here; but i wonder sometimes wether or not SOME people that post on this forum are really cognicent of the demand of thier show as compared to others. that being siad i wish not to detract of be a buzzkill, i happily congratulate all those in 2/3 for a very entertaining season of shows. i felt that the more entertaing shows regardless of division were in div 2/3.

its just that i feel SOME members become blinded by thier love and enjoyment for thier show or another show to be able to obectivly look at it.

agian, that being siad i appluad both east coast and spartens for thier victories, as in accordance with 2/3 judging the cleanest groups won on both nights. congrats, they did a fine job of entertaining, and thats whats its all about

Edited August 20, 2005 by waterarrow

[tubaman1321]

Demand has no bearing in score in DIV 1 either. There is the score for what is written and then a score for what is achieved but nothing about DEMAND or Difficulty!! How clean a performance is would determine how far a corps could go!

[waterarrow]

the score concerning what is written goes to demand and difficulty.

[witchsbrew07]

Not to burst your bubble, but it's not entirely true. If you look at DCI recaps, each caption is split into technique, musicality (i think), and excellence.

On the point of demand and difficulty, that is probably incorrect. There aren't many shows that stick out in my head (or any I want to mention and #### off other corps members), but many a year have there been shows that appear to have relatively easy music or drill, but the corps still places very high because they do it to perfection.

Demanding shows with hard books of music and drill sure make you look better, but they are not reflected upon in the score. That aside from the drill appearing easy, what else was exactly "easy" about ECJ's show?

Edited August 20, 2005 by witchsbrew07

[waterarrow]

im not sure if it was semantics or what but i think that people are getting the impression that i thought thier show was easier, or bad, or that i didnt like it. to believe that would be wrong. i liked their shows. but do you honestly believe that thier show would hold water in Div1? theirs was a great div2 show, performed well andwritten well too. i just feel its a little unrealistic to think they would be able to hold thier own ina div 1 competition. please correct me if im wrong ill gladly concede defeat to anyone that shows me them on div1 sheets along with other div1 semifinalist corps' and being in the same league.

i guess its just that while the end goal is that all divisions should have the same level of execution, demand, ability, and education; but i dont think that always happens unfortuantly.

[MelloHorn13]

So yea,

What the difference between, Div 1 and Div 2?

Not much, probally nothing.

Some Div 2 corps do full tours just like Div 1 corps... some Div 1 corps only do regional tours like most Div 2.

Can't really say number b/c Div 1 corps can get on the small side.

Average age of the corps isnt' much of a difference for some Div 2 corps... average age for ECJ was aroudn 18.. maybe 19

Only real difference now between the two division are the sheets.

So there's no real difference.

Edited August 20, 2005 by MelloHorn13