bd5times Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 I remember many, many camps and rehearsals where we just played on the mouthpieces, working on playing to the center of the mouth piece. Then, playing to the center of the horn. Jack, Jim, and Dave would listen to each horn player during warm-ups to make sure they were "buzzing" the horn, as Jack would say. I know some get turned off of the "tune by mark" method. The kids are also taught to listen, listen, listen as another posted and to make adjustments as needed. Obviously, they've [bD] figured something out that works for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubasweet Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 I am getting ready to mark some G Bugles for tuning. I have seen it done, but I need to know the technique and process.....can anyone help me?Thanks Ben <{POST_SNAPBACK}> My Concert Brass Band Director in the UK used to say " Modern Brass instruments are finely engineered, you can pull slides all day long but the only way to play in tune is to use your ears" alot of the time he was right but we kept pulling those #### slides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RegimentContra94 Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 How about you teach players to listen? Jeez, it seems like a lot of work when it will only be different for someone else and for different temps. I think I will just stick with my ear and continue to educate my students likewise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCVsopAaron Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 I think there was good logic behind the system, but it is more for convienece than accuracy... We used notches last year at SCV, and here's what I thought... Is the system perfect? No. Will every player be in tune when they are on the same notch? NO! So what's the point? Probably because it's DRUM CORPS and perfect tuning whilst running about the field is practically impossible... So having an average and using that everday as a refrence point, in theory, is a good idea... sorta... Think of it more as a ballpark guess rather than a totally 100% fool-proof tuning method... It makes sense if you don't want to spend the time to tune everyone individually and you work enough on the system that the performers are used to that listening environment... Would I ever use the notch system? NO WAY. lol... Why? Because you can get better results (maybe?) by doing the traditional way of tuning, or not even tuning at all and teaching listening skills... If you ever want to discuss this, IM me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madscout96 Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 I think that having notches on your slide can be effective. I do whole-heartedly agree though, that teaching musical understanding is most important when you're talking about tuning. Performers DO need to listen to each other and understand how they fit into the harmonic structure. In other words, they need to be able to hear in their head what they are trying to play before the play it. And then they need to know the skills needed to achieve what they are hearing in their head (alternate fingerings, adjusting with the slide, the embouchure, etc.) Could you push your main slide in all the way while the rest of the hornline has theirs out about a half inch, and still play perfectly in tune with the rest of the ensemble? Of course you can, if you are listening and understanding and hearing in your head the harmonic structure. But is your pitch going to be steady? Probably not. What about your tone quality? Probably won't be the best. That's why you have to have your slide in the right place. So you can blow "in the center of the horn", or "in focus". Maybe the notches are used to get people "in the ballpark" when they're tuning, rather than lipping slightly up or down to get in tune. When I tune my horn at a rehearsal, I basically am trying to figure out where exactly the slide should be in order to allow myself to play in tune with the best tone quality and "focus". After that, I'm constantly listening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeW Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 moved to appropriate forum moving to Brass Forum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bd5times Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 It seems many equate using "notches" to not listening....they are not mutually exclusive. The notch is a reference point. Slides are still pushed in, pulled out during warm-ups based on the individual. Everybody makes personal adjustments based on their needs......and....well.....if you've ever heard Blue Devils, it's readily apparent they are listening to each other...no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RegimentContra94 Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 I'm not suggesting that the Blue Devils don't listen to each other, I'm just trying to figure out the reason for notching a tuning slide when the notch will not be the same for everyone everytime anyway. Any trombone player can tell you, third position is rarely in the exact same place every time you play if you want to play in tune. It doesn't seem like a valuable use of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socalcontra Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 I'm not a big fan of putting a physical mark on an instrument-that's why the notch system wouldn't work for me. I know that when we tested the prototype 4 valve G contra, Dave Carico and myself went to Zig Kanstul's on a Saturday morning and tinkered with the horn. Of course Zig was his "cheery" self and after a few expletives, we got the horn playing in the "center". The lead pipe on a contra is very important to the tonal production of the horn. Don't get me started on these "convertible" tubas that corps use-I use the EXACT same horn in my middle school band that these guys use (Yamaha 321/4 valve-mine's the jr hi version the 201-1 valve less). The way these guys have to position their hands to play, let alone the factors of having a section added to the horn so that you can play it "convertible" makes me cringe. When I taught at Lakewood H.S. in the early '80s, I actually "hid" the slides on their convertible tubas so they couldn't use them that way. We used a very trusted 'ol instrument-a Sousaphone. Now, considering these groups are more bands than corps anyway (I know, I know, I'm opening a can of worms-read on) why not use a sousaphone. It has better projection, tone and it's more ergonomic to the player. IF a group truely uses a marching tuba, that is permanently built for the purpose of being "like" a contra bass bugle, then the kids playing them will be much better off in the long run, rather than something that is some kind of "ricky-ticky" type set up (like these "marching" tubas). Anyway, the importance of using a "marking" system is to make adjustments consistantly with the slides. YES, instruments do perform differently in different environments-that's not new to any of you here. What you might be missing is THE BOOK from your equation. THE BOOK is the means to recalibrate the instrument(s) for that specific surrounding. I'm glad Rob brought up the fact that we buzzed on our mouthpieces. That is a VERY big part of producing good tone. We also SANG a ton in the corps as to learn how to center sound. We almost got them to let us sing "Coney Island Baby" in Louisville in '82 (along with other shows-but we were REALLY close at that show to doing it). Singing as an instrumentalist is paramount to good tonal production. Unfortunatly, my middle school instrumental kids run for cover when we try to sing. Lucky for me this year I "snuck" it in during our summer school band practice using my numeric system (that's a really long post for another time). Oddly, the tone and listening did make some minor improvements-so that's where we'll pick up in September. IF you follow the BD plan of instrumental brass playing and be 100% in it's practice, you'll beat them at their own game eventually. Most people just give up and blow it off. Like all the BD people have said in this thread-obviously this works because we/they have won with it (either DCI or high brass trophies). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbc03 Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 Like all the BD people have said in this thread-obviously this works because we/they have won with it (either DCI or high brass trophies). <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The Cadets used the mark system this year, and it seemed to work out ok for them as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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